Hula... Netmail... NIMS.. Novonyx Mail Server.. Netscape..

Those who /do not remember/ the past are condemned to repeat
it, /The 
Life of Reason/ (1905-1906) - George Santayana

First i'm happy to see something going on, I was hoping Maui
was going 
to move forward...  (first ranting and explaining the past,
the bottom 
has the technical stuff..)

I started my relationship with Hula from the Novell side.  I
was heavily 
involved in Novell Directory Services (and Groupwise) and
spent a bit of 
time speaking on the products.  I also saw the integration
market 
sliding and chose to move our company in the direction of
managed 
professional Internet services for business.  At the time
all the rage 
was Windows Server, and the Internet was all Free BSD,
Solaris etc.

I was contacted by Dave Stevenson and Peter Bartok, two
people that had 
come over to join Novell from Netscape via Novonyx (Fastrak
server for 
Netware, Enterprise server for Netware etc).  The object was
to produce 
a mail server for the ISP market with the ability to
maintain a 
centralized authentication system, and an extremely high
performance 
mail processor.  I believe they used standard postfix mail
store 
format.  The development at that point was open and we
worked to 
establish virtual domain hosting, aliasing, and ultimately
they came up 
with TOM the account manager.  There have been many people
involved in 
this project and on the Novell team, many notables that i've
probably 
not listed here but here are a few, Rodney Price, Micah
Gorrell, Dave 
Latimer, Davinessto (NDS god), Matthew Defoor, Jason
Brothers, Jason 
Thomas, Joe Flowers, Mitch Mitchell, Tracy Cerise.  The
product is 
deployed at several LARGE implementations at universities
where there 
are students trying to break it, and professors trying to
profess it's 
deficiencies.  The key is it WORKS.  We've been running it
as an ISP for 
almost 10 years on the Netware platform!  They created a
side project 
called "myrealbox.com" to test the performance of
the system and ran the 
system against a BILLION user NDS tree and tested in
superlabs, needless 
to say performance on this is through the roof..

Now step in the Marketing people, the division that can kill
ANY good 
product.  Over the years there has been in and out
investment in the 
product, i've seen more money wasted on going to ISPCON than
would fund 
this project for 5 years.  I was part of the Novell enabled
ISP initiative.

My point in all of this is this is a great product that
keeps ending up 
a poor step child. 

Lets review... I haven't used Hula much, looked at the first
release and 
I know a couple of people USING it as their primary mail
server, so it 
used to work prior to July of this year.  It's mostly based
on the 
original Netmail product.

The product worked around modules, the primary module being
NMAP.  This 
module was responsible for authenticating to NDS (or other
methods), 
reading and writing the message "store" and had a
specific set of 
controls, and API's.  It could be rewritten to support any
"store" while 
maintaining the API's without breaking the existing agents. 
Something 
obviously forgotten... After nmap agents loaded that
communicated over 
IP to nmap for store requests.  As agents registered they
inserted 
themselves into the message queue levels, so smtp, imap,
webmail, 
antivirus, antispam were all seperately reloadable
independent of the 
message store (and bypassable by unloading!).  This
maintained and 
improved from the Novonyx product all the way through
Netmail 3.5.  With 
NDS (Edirectory) as the backend database processor
(authentication & 
objects) this provided a cross platform, cross continent
capable mail 
product.  The team added TOM, parent objects (virtual
domains, user 
management), and a templatable web interface multiple
different web 
interfaces following a common communication api.  The web
interface was 
mostly grabbed and used by the Groupwise team for their
interface as 
well.. because it has css standards, and heh.. worked..  
after the Java 
debacles...

I would like to be able to migrate forward and use Hula or
whatever it's 
called from the existing mail base I have.  I would also
like the 
ability to use NDS/Edirectory directly (Novell has the
module), although 
I guess LDAP (L=LIGHTWEIGHT) is a usable interface to it and
other 
directories (AD).  Calendaring would sell the product, and
the ability 
to do resource calendaring and user calendaring (maybe in
MYSQL?) tied 
to the mailbox.

So the project needs NMAP revitalized, the protocols and
API's undusted, 
and the Agents reviewed.  Rather than switching to alpha
code interfaces 
(dragooon) that have usability issues (foldering) that
standard users 
can't figure out, set these up as agents so there is ALWAYS
a working 
product.  Modularity and stability are what is required, not
a complete 
codebase rewrite.  The product was written to be compiled
cross platform 
(netware, windows, linux).  Rodney Price is the main guy
that has been 
around with this full term..

For your humor...
Feb 15, 2005 Information week "We want Hula to become
to collaboration 
what Apache has been to Web serving," Novell chairman
and CEO Jack 
Messman said during a keynote speech at Tuesday's LinuxWorld
in Boston 
where he revealed the effort.      I think it takes more
than 2 years to 
have a great relationship....

Regards,
Ray Poorman
MCNE, MCSE+I, Cisco.. blah blah blah... 20 year IT vet...

Glossary of Marketing terms:
NDS - Novell Directory Services, also known as the
remarketed E-Directory
Novonyx Mail, became Novell Internet Messaging System
(NIMS), then 
Netmail, and now Hula
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I have slowly reading this and I think this a bit of Hula
history.  At 
least for the people as me what started with Novonyx-Novell
mail server 
a few years ago.

snifff....  

Glad to read you again Ray...

Best regards..

Ray Poorman escribió:
> Those who /do not remember/ the past are condemned to
repeat it, /The 
> Life of Reason/ (1905-1906) - George Santayana
> 
> First i'm happy to see something going on, I was hoping
Maui was going 
> to move forward...  (first ranting and explaining the
past, the bottom 
> has the technical stuff..)
> 
> I started my relationship with Hula from the Novell
side.  I was heavily 
> involved in Novell Directory Services (and Groupwise)
and spent a bit of 
> time speaking on the products.  I also saw the
integration market 
> sliding and chose to move our company in the direction
of managed 
> professional Internet services for business.  At the
time all the rage 
> was Windows Server, and the Internet was all Free BSD,
Solaris etc.
> 
> I was contacted by Dave Stevenson and Peter Bartok, two
people that had 
> come over to join Novell from Netscape via Novonyx
(Fastrak server for 
> Netware, Enterprise server for Netware etc).  The
object was to produce 
> a mail server for the ISP market with the ability to
maintain a 
> centralized authentication system, and an extremely
high performance 
> mail processor.  I believe they used standard postfix
mail store 
> format.  The development at that point was open and we
worked to 
> establish virtual domain hosting, aliasing, and
ultimately they came up 
> with TOM the account manager.  There have been many
people involved in 
> this project and on the Novell team, many notables that
i've probably 
> not listed here but here are a few, Rodney Price, Micah
Gorrell, Dave 
> Latimer, Davinessto (NDS god), Matthew Defoor, Jason
Brothers, Jason 
> Thomas, Joe Flowers, Mitch Mitchell, Tracy Cerise.  The
product is 
> deployed at several LARGE implementations at
universities where there 
> are students trying to break it, and professors trying
to profess it's 
> deficiencies.  The key is it WORKS.  We've been running
it as an ISP for 
> almost 10 years on the Netware platform!  They created
a side project 
> called "myrealbox.com" to test the
performance of the system and ran the 
> system against a BILLION user NDS tree and tested in
superlabs, needless 
> to say performance on this is through the roof..
> 
> Now step in the Marketing people, the division that can
kill ANY good 
> product.  Over the years there has been in and out
investment in the 
> product, i've seen more money wasted on going to ISPCON
than would fund 
> this project for 5 years.  I was part of the Novell
enabled ISP initiative.
> 
> My point in all of this is this is a great product that
keeps ending up 
> a poor step child.
> Lets review... I haven't used Hula much, looked at the
first release and 
> I know a couple of people USING it as their primary
mail server, so it 
> used to work prior to July of this year.  It's mostly
based on the 
> original Netmail product.
> 
> The product worked around modules, the primary module
being NMAP.  This 
> module was responsible for authenticating to NDS (or
other methods), 
> reading and writing the message "store" and
had a specific set of 
> controls, and API's.  It could be rewritten to support
any "store" while 
> maintaining the API's without breaking the existing
agents.  Something 
> obviously forgotten... After nmap agents loaded that
communicated over 
> IP to nmap for store requests.  As agents registered
they inserted 
> themselves into the message queue levels, so smtp,
imap, webmail, 
> antivirus, antispam were all seperately reloadable
independent of the 
> message store (and bypassable by unloading!).  This
maintained and 
> improved from the Novonyx product all the way through
Netmail 3.5.  With 
> NDS (Edirectory) as the backend database processor
(authentication & 
> objects) this provided a cross platform, cross
continent capable mail 
> product.  The team added TOM, parent objects (virtual
domains, user 
> management), and a templatable web interface multiple
different web 
> interfaces following a common communication api.  The
web interface was 
> mostly grabbed and used by the Groupwise team for their
interface as 
> well.. because it has css standards, and heh.. worked..
  after the Java 
> debacles...
> 
> I would like to be able to migrate forward and use Hula
or whatever it's 
> called from the existing mail base I have.  I would
also like the 
> ability to use NDS/Edirectory directly (Novell has the
module), although 
> I guess LDAP (L=LIGHTWEIGHT) is a usable interface to
it and other 
> directories (AD).  Calendaring would sell the product,
and the ability 
> to do resource calendaring and user calendaring (maybe
in MYSQL?) tied 
> to the mailbox.
> 
> So the project needs NMAP revitalized, the protocols
and API's undusted, 
> and the Agents reviewed.  Rather than switching to
alpha code interfaces 
> (dragooon) that have usability issues (foldering) that
standard users 
> can't figure out, set these up as agents so there is
ALWAYS a working 
> product.  Modularity and stability are what is
required, not a complete 
> codebase rewrite.  The product was written to be
compiled cross platform 
> (netware, windows, linux).  Rodney Price is the main
guy that has been 
> around with this full term..
> 
> For your humor...
> Feb 15, 2005 Information week "We want Hula to
become to collaboration 
> what Apache has been to Web serving," Novell
chairman and CEO Jack 
> Messman said during a keynote speech at Tuesday's
LinuxWorld in Boston 
> where he revealed the effort.      I think it takes
more than 2 years to 
> have a great relationship....
> 
> Regards,
> Ray Poorman
> MCNE, MCSE+I, Cisco.. blah blah blah... 20 year IT
vet...
_______________________________________________
Hula-general mailing list
Hula-generalforge.novell.com
http://forge.novell.com/mailman/listinfo/hula-general