RE: Call for Statements of Interest -- NA RALO Seats on ALAC

Roberto,

No one's arguing that it's unacceptable to post the
notice to a relevant mailing list.  I contend that the
requirement for sufficient outreach has not been met. 
The Call for Statements of Interest was not posted on
the NARALO website, it was not posted on the ALAC
website, it was not posted on the ICANN website;
neither was it posted on ICANN's public participation
website, nor in the ICANN Blog.  It was not in an
ICANN newsletter, nor in an ICANN news alert nor in an
at-large newsletter.  

Confining the Call only to the tiny handful of
subscribers to the NA list is unfair to the broader
North American At-Large community.

Perhaps you recall the earlier at-large elections? 
Sufficient publicity, and 10,632 participating North
American members... and what do you have now with your
pretend at-large?  Will you even get 32 votes to
select a North American representative to the ALAC? 

It's sad to think that you remain comfortable
perpetrating a fraud.

As Milton Mueller recently stated on the NCUC list:

"Originally, the At Large was created to represent
unaffiliated individuals. After the "reforms" of
2002,
when the At Large membership became the At Large
Advisory Committee, the concept of At Large was
suddenly based on "At Large Structures" (ALSs).
"At
large structure" is just a fancy name for a
noncommercial organization. The combination of an ALAC
based on ALSs and an NCUC based on noncommercial
organizations is a source of perpetual confusion among
civil society actors who are considering participation
in ICANN, and a source of discoordination within
ICANN. This confusion is compounded by the fact that
many people, apparently including the Board Governance
Committee, still think that ALAC represents
unaffiliated individuals, which it does only
imperfectly because of its reliance on ALSs."

The entire ALAC and RALO concepts remain an insult to
the at-large community.  I guess it's no wonder that
you want to keep real outreach to the real at-large to
a minimum... 



--- Roberto Gaetano <robertoicann.org> wrote:

> Danny,
> Since the seat is for representing NA RALO, I find
> it perfectly acceptable
> to post it in the relevant mailing list, i.e. the NA
> RALO.
> Obviously, participants to the NA RALO mailing list,
> like you, can post it
> to other list as they see fit.
> Cheers,
> Roberto
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-gagnso.icann.org 
> > [mailto:owner-gagnso.icann.org] On Behalf
Of
> Danny Younger
> > Sent: 22 June 2007 16:37
> > To: veni markovski; gagnso.icann.org
> > Subject: Re: [ga] Call for Statements of Interest
> -- NA RALO 
> > Seats on ALAC
> > 
> > Veni,
> > 
> > You understand that no outreach was done
> whatsoever? 
> > Just a Call posted to a single small list?  And
> you find this 
> > acceptable?  Shame on you.
> > 
> > 
> > --- veni markovski <veniveni.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Danny,
> > > you understand that sometimes the quality is
not
> in the quantity, 
> > > right?
> > > As for that - I believe we have had a
discussion
> about the 
> > > participation in the At Large process.
People
> can choose to 
> > be part of 
> > > this solution, or part of the problem, or
part
> of the landscape.
> > > And, as Wendy pointed out, there is no
problem
> for the 
> > organizations 
> > > (e.g. ISOC-New York) to be more active at the
At
> Large.
> > > So, you could contribute, or continue to try
to
> mock and ruin other 
> > > people's efforts.
> > > 
> > > veni
> > > 
> > > At 09:51 6/22/2007  -0700, Danny Younger
wrote:
> > > >Spotted only on the North American
discuss list
> -- really great 
> > > >outreach if all you want is a tiny
> > > club.
> > > >Probably deserves a complaint to the
> Ombudsman's office...
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >        
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
__
> > ______________________
> > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights
> and hotels 
> > with Yahoo! FareChase.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.co
m/
> 
> 



 
____________________________________________________________
________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
Green Center.
http://autos.yah
oo.com/green_center/

Danny,

Unless I am missing something, this is the election by the
NA RALO members
(who are all by definition on the NA RALO list) of *their*
representative in
ALAC. Thank you for admitting that is at least *not
unacceptable* to you to
even post it to the NA RALO list, you are very generous and
open minded.

If somebody from outside the NA RALO would like to be
elected to the
position, he/she should, at least, lobby the NA RALO, and/or
have a
sufficient number of friends in the NA RALO to get elected.
Ergo, he/she
would know anyhow via the friends he/she has. Of course, for
PR reasons, it
would be good to publicize this more broadly, I agree with
you on that.
Where we disagree, is that it is a *fraud*, as you call it,
not to do it.

As a matter of fact, may I have the list of all outreach
actions the GA has
taken when planning the election of its officials?

Best regards,
Roberto


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyoungeryahoo.com] 
> Sent: 22 June 2007 22:31
> To: Roberto Gaetano
> Cc: gagnso.icann.org
> Subject: RE: [ga] Call for Statements of Interest -- NA
RALO 
> Seats on ALAC
> 
> Roberto,
> 
> No one's arguing that it's unacceptable to post the
notice to 
> a relevant mailing list.  I contend that the
requirement for 
> sufficient outreach has not been met. 
> The Call for Statements of Interest was not posted on
the 
> NARALO website, it was not posted on the ALAC website,
it was 
> not posted on the ICANN website; neither was it posted
on 
> ICANN's public participation website, nor in the ICANN
Blog.  
> It was not in an ICANN newsletter, nor in an ICANN news
alert 
> nor in an at-large newsletter.  
> 
> Confining the Call only to the tiny handful of
subscribers to 
> the NA list is unfair to the broader North American
At-Large 
> community.
> 
> Perhaps you recall the earlier at-large elections? 
> Sufficient publicity, and 10,632 participating North
American 
> members... and what do you have now with your pretend 
> at-large?  Will you even get 32 votes to select a North

> American representative to the ALAC? 
> 
> It's sad to think that you remain comfortable
perpetrating a fraud.
> 
> As Milton Mueller recently stated on the NCUC list:
> 
> "Originally, the At Large was created to represent

> unaffiliated individuals. After the "reforms"
of 2002, when 
> the At Large membership became the At Large Advisory 
> Committee, the concept of At Large was suddenly based
on "At 
> Large Structures" (ALSs). "At large
structure" is just a 
> fancy name for a noncommercial organization. The
combination 
> of an ALAC based on ALSs and an NCUC based on
noncommercial 
> organizations is a source of perpetual confusion among
civil 
> society actors who are considering participation in
ICANN, 
> and a source of discoordination within ICANN. This
confusion 
> is compounded by the fact that many people, apparently

> including the Board Governance Committee, still think
that 
> ALAC represents unaffiliated individuals, which it does
only 
> imperfectly because of its reliance on ALSs."
> 
> The entire ALAC and RALO concepts remain an insult to
the 
> at-large community.  I guess it's no wonder that you
want to 
> keep real outreach to the real at-large to a minimum...

> 
> 
> 
> --- Roberto Gaetano <robertoicann.org> wrote:
> 
> > Danny,
> > Since the seat is for representing NA RALO, I find
it perfectly 
> > acceptable to post it in the relevant mailing
list, i.e. 
> the NA RALO.
> > Obviously, participants to the NA RALO mailing
list, like you, can 
> > post it to other list as they see fit.
> > Cheers,
> > Roberto
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-gagnso.icann.org
> > > [mailto:owner-gagnso.icann.org] On Behalf
Of
> > Danny Younger
> > > Sent: 22 June 2007 16:37
> > > To: veni markovski; gagnso.icann.org
> > > Subject: Re: [ga] Call for Statements of
Interest
> > -- NA RALO
> > > Seats on ALAC
> > > 
> > > Veni,
> > > 
> > > You understand that no outreach was done
> > whatsoever? 
> > > Just a Call posted to a single small list? 
And
> > you find this
> > > acceptable?  Shame on you.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- veni markovski <veniveni.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Danny,
> > > > you understand that sometimes the
quality is not
> > in the quantity,
> > > > right?
> > > > As for that - I believe we have had a
discussion
> > about the
> > > > participation in the At Large process.
People
> > can choose to
> > > be part of
> > > > this solution, or part of the problem,
or part
> > of the landscape.
> > > > And, as Wendy pointed out, there is no
problem
> > for the
> > > organizations
> > > > (e.g. ISOC-New York) to be more active
at the At
> > Large.
> > > > So, you could contribute, or continue to
try to
> > mock and ruin other
> > > > people's efforts.
> > > > 
> > > > veni
> > > > 
> > > > At 09:51 6/22/2007  -0700, Danny Younger
wrote:
> > > > >Spotted only on the North American
discuss list
> > -- really great
> > > > >outreach if all you want is a tiny
> > > > club.
> > > > >Probably deserves a complaint to
the
> > Ombudsman's office...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >        
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
__
> > > ______________________
> > > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on
flights
> > and hotels
> > > with Yahoo! FareChase.
> > > http://farechase.yahoo.co
m/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>
____________________________________________________________
__
> ______________________
> Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo!
Autos' Green Center.
> http://autos.yah
oo.com/green_center/