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Thread: Last Call: 'Link-layer Event Notifications for Detecting Network Attachments' to Informational RFC (




Last Call: 'Link-layer Event Notifications for Detecting Network Attachments' to Informational RFC (
user name
2006-12-13 18:38:49
Overall, I think this document is not quite ready for
publication as
an RFC and needs another revision. Specific comments follow.

> The IESG has received a request from the Detecting
Network Attachment WG
> to consider the following document:

> - 'Link-layer Event Notifications for Detecting Network
Attachments '
>    <draft-ietf-dna-link-information-05.txt> as an
Informational RFC

I'm trying to figure out exactly what this document is
inteded to
do. It's presumably not a protocol document, as its going
for
informational. That said, I'm don't think it should make use
of
MUST/MAY/SHOULD language at all.

The first usage:

>    process.  For example, the notification indicating
that the node has
>    established a new link-layer connection MAY be used
for immediately
>    probing the network for a possible configuration
change.  In the

Seems inappropriate as this is just part of the
introduction. Later
uses of upper case language is also suspect.  I'd suggest
removing all
MUST/MAY/SHOULD langauge.

Also, I assume that this document is really more about
giving examples
(using some current link types) of how/when a link up
indication could
be given. That is fine, but the document could be more clear
about
that. I'd suggest adding a paragraph clearly stating what
the purpose
of this document is. Also, 

>    The document limits itself to the minimum set of
information that is
>    necessary for solving the DNA problem [RFC4135].  A
broader set of
>    information (e.g., signal strength, packet loss,
etc.) and events
>    (e.g. link down) may be used for other problem
spaces, such as
>    anticipation-based Mobile IP fast handovers
[I-D.ietf-mobileip-
>    lowlatency-handoffs-v4]
>    [I-D.ietf-mipshop-fast-mipv6].  Separate documents
that are backward-
>    compatible with this one can be generated to discuss
further
>    enhancements.

The last sentence seems out of place, as it seems to give
this
document more weight than I think it merits.


>    discussion).  A link up notification MAY be
generated with an
>    appropriate attribute (e.g., "risk"
indicated by R-flag) to convey
>    the event.  Alternatively, the link-layer
implementation MAY choose
>    to delay the link up notification until the risk
conditions cease to
>    exist.

the term "R-flag" seems a bit detailed given that
this document isn't
defining an API in any detail. I'd remove all references to
this term.

>    If a link up with the R-flag set was generated,
another link up MUST
>    follow up as soon as the link-layer is capable of
generating a
>    deterministic notification.  The event attributes
MUST indicate
>    whether the packets transmitted since the previous
notification were
>    presumed to be blocked (B-flag) or allowed (A-flag)
by the network if
>    the link-layer could determine the exact conditions.
 If the link-
>    layer cannot make a determination about the fate of
these packets, it
>    MUST generate a link up without any additional
indications (no flags
>    set).


The first MUST seems unnecessarily specific. This document
is no a
spec.

Also, the B-flag is also too specific and sounds to much
like a
spec. Why does an interface need to provide these semantics?
I'd
suggest removing all references to "B-flag".

Same for A-flag. These flags are not defined in sufficient
precision
to be useful.

>    A node may have to change its IP-layer configuration
even when the
>    link-layer connection stays the same.  An example
scenario is the
>    IPv6 subnet renumbering [RFC2461].  Therefore, there
exist cases
>    where IP-layer configuration may have to change even
without the IP-
>    layer receiving a link up notification.  Therefore,
a link-layer
>    notification is not a mandatory indication of a
subnet change.


The above isn't really saying what needs to be said clearly.
I suspect
the point being made is that link-layer notifications are
not
sufficient indicate all changes in subnet configuration.

at a minimum, reword last sentence to something like:

   Therefore, link-layer event notifications are not a
sufficient
   mechanism to signal all potential subnet configuration
changes.

>    layer technology as well.  The following subsections
examine four
>    link-layer technologies and describe when a
link-layer notification
>    must be generated and what information must be
included in it.

reword ("must"), to make it sound less like
requirments that this
document is making.

Section 2.1: some of the specifics in this section sound
like
requirements of this spec. I'm not sure this document is
supposed to
be a specification. e.g.:

>    With IPv4, the auxiliary information carried along
with this
>    notification MUST be the IPv4 address of the MT
which is obtained as
>    part of the PDP Context.  With IPv6, the PDP Context
activation

Is the above a requirement? Or is it just saying what the
existing
practice in IPv4 is today? (I would assume that the  latter
is what
the document should do.)

>    The status of the link as determined by the Link
Integrity Test is
>    stored in the variable 'link_status'.  Changes to
the value of
>    link_status (for example due to Link Integrity Test
failure) will
>    generate link indications if the technology
dependent interface is
>    implemented on an Ethernet device [IEEE-802.3].

This is getting pretty detailed, and is presumably the way
things work
at the device driver level...
Last Call: 'Link-layer Event Notifications for Detecting Network Attachments' to Informational RFC (
user name
2006-12-14 16:14:51
Hi Thomas,
   Thanks for the review. Comments inline.

Thanks
Suresh

Thomas Narten wrote:
> Overall, I think this document is not quite ready for
publication as
> an RFC and needs another revision. Specific comments
follow.
> 
>> The IESG has received a request from the Detecting
Network Attachment WG
>> to consider the following document:
> 
>> - 'Link-layer Event Notifications for Detecting
Network Attachments '
>>    <draft-ietf-dna-link-information-05.txt>
as an Informational RFC
> 
> I'm trying to figure out exactly what this document is
inteded to
> do. It's presumably not a protocol document, as its
going for
> informational. That said, I'm don't think it should
make use of
> MUST/MAY/SHOULD language at all.

Since it is not a standards track protocol document, the
normative 
language is not required for interoperability. But I think
it still has 
utility as guidance for implementers of the hints.

> 
> The first usage:
> 
>>    process.  For example, the notification
indicating that the node has
>>    established a new link-layer connection MAY be
used for immediately
>>    probing the network for a possible configuration
change.  In the
> 
> Seems inappropriate as this is just part of the
introduction. Later
> uses of upper case language is also suspect.  I'd
suggest removing all
> MUST/MAY/SHOULD langauge.

I will replace the capitalized MAY with a lower case may.

> 
> Also, I assume that this document is really more about
giving examples
> (using some current link types) of how/when a link up
indication could
> be given. That is fine, but the document could be more
clear about

Will try to come up with some text for this.

> that. I'd suggest adding a paragraph clearly stating
what the purpose
> of this document is. Also, 
> 
>>    The document limits itself to the minimum set of
information that is
>>    necessary for solving the DNA problem [RFC4135].
 A broader set of
>>    information (e.g., signal strength, packet loss,
etc.) and events
>>    (e.g. link down) may be used for other problem
spaces, such as
>>    anticipation-based Mobile IP fast handovers
[I-D.ietf-mobileip-
>>    lowlatency-handoffs-v4]
>>    [I-D.ietf-mipshop-fast-mipv6].  Separate
documents that are backward-
>>    compatible with this one can be generated to
discuss further
>>    enhancements.
> 
> The last sentence seems out of place, as it seems to
give this
> document more weight than I think it merits.

Will remove the sentence.

> 
> 
>>    discussion).  A link up notification MAY be
generated with an
>>    appropriate attribute (e.g., "risk"
indicated by R-flag) to convey
>>    the event.  Alternatively, the link-layer
implementation MAY choose
>>    to delay the link up notification until the risk
conditions cease to
>>    exist.
> 
> the term "R-flag" seems a bit detailed given
that this document isn't
> defining an API in any detail. I'd remove all
references to this term.

The R-flag just indicates a non-deterministic link
indication. If you 
would prefer using that term instead, I can make the change.

> 
>>    If a link up with the R-flag set was generated,
another link up MUST
>>    follow up as soon as the link-layer is capable
of generating a
>>    deterministic notification.  The event
attributes MUST indicate
>>    whether the packets transmitted since the
previous notification were
>>    presumed to be blocked (B-flag) or allowed
(A-flag) by the network if
>>    the link-layer could determine the exact
conditions.  If the link-
>>    layer cannot make a determination about the fate
of these packets, it
>>    MUST generate a link up without any additional
indications (no flags
>>    set).
> 
> 
> The first MUST seems unnecessarily specific. This
document is no a
> spec.
> 
> Also, the B-flag is also too specific and sounds to
much like a
> spec. Why does an interface need to provide these
semantics? I'd
> suggest removing all references to "B-flag".
> 
> Same for A-flag. These flags are not defined in
sufficient precision
> to be useful.

Does this text work for you?

If a non-deterministic link up was generated, another link
up must
follow as soon as the link-layer is capable of generating a
deterministic notification.  The event attributes may
indicate
whether the packets transmitted since the previous
notification were
presumed to be blocked or allowed by the network, if
the link-layer could determine the exact conditions.

> 
>>    A node may have to change its IP-layer
configuration even when the
>>    link-layer connection stays the same.  An
example scenario is the
>>    IPv6 subnet renumbering [RFC2461].  Therefore,
there exist cases
>>    where IP-layer configuration may have to change
even without the IP-
>>    layer receiving a link up notification. 
Therefore, a link-layer
>>    notification is not a mandatory indication of a
subnet change.
> 
> 
> The above isn't really saying what needs to be said
clearly. I suspect
> the point being made is that link-layer notifications
are not
> sufficient indicate all changes in subnet
configuration.
> 
> at a minimum, reword last sentence to something like:
> 
>    Therefore, link-layer event notifications are not a
sufficient
>    mechanism to signal all potential subnet
configuration changes.
> 
>>    layer technology as well.  The following
subsections examine four
>>    link-layer technologies and describe when a
link-layer notification
>>    must be generated and what information must be
included in it.
> 
> reword ("must"), to make it sound less like
requirments that this
> document is making.

Can you suggest some text?

> 
> Section 2.1: some of the specifics in this section
sound like
> requirements of this spec. I'm not sure this document
is supposed to
> be a specification. e.g.:
> 
>>    With IPv4, the auxiliary information carried
along with this
>>    notification MUST be the IPv4 address of the MT
which is obtained as
>>    part of the PDP Context.  With IPv6, the PDP
Context activation
> 
> Is the above a requirement? Or is it just saying what
the existing
> practice in IPv4 is today? (I would assume that the 
latter is what
> the document should do.)

You are right. It is the latter.

> 
>>    The status of the link as determined by the Link
Integrity Test is
>>    stored in the variable 'link_status'.  Changes
to the value of
>>    link_status (for example due to Link Integrity
Test failure) will
>>    generate link indications if the technology
dependent interface is
>>    implemented on an Ethernet device [IEEE-802.3].
> 
> This is getting pretty detailed, and is presumably the
way things work
> at the device driver level...
[1-2]

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