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Thread: RE: Re: Reclassification of DNA Protocol and new Simple DNA protocol




RE: Re: Reclassification of DNA Protocol and new Simple DNA protocol
country flaguser name
United States
2007-11-05 10:17:41
With respect to the simple solution, I think there are some
basic 
requirements that it needs to meet.  These are summarized in
RFC 4436 
Section 1.1 (paraphrased to fit DNAv6):

      o  DNAv6 is a performance optimization.  Its purpose
is to speed
         up a process that may require as much as a few
hundred
         milliseconds (DHCPv6), as well as to reduce multi-
         second conflict detection delays when a host
changes networks.

      o  As a performance optimization, it must not
sacrifice
         correctness.  In other words, false positives are
not
         acceptable.  DNAv6 must not conclude that a host
has returned
         to a previously visited link where it has an
operable IP
         address if this is not in fact the case.

      o  As a performance optimization, false negatives are
acceptable.
         It is not an absolute requirement that this
optimization
         correctly recognize a previously visited link in
all possible
         cases.  This is acceptable as long as the
         host still operates correctly as it did without
DNAv6, just
         without the performance benefit.

      o  As a performance optimization, where DNAv6 fails to
provide a
         benefit, it should add little or no delay compared
to today's
         RS/RA and DHCPv6 processing.  In practice, this
implies that this
         processing needs to proceed in parallel.  Waiting
for DNAv6 to
         fail before beginning RS/RA and DHCPv6 processing
can greatly 
increase
         total processing time, the opposite of the desired
effect.

      o  Trials are inexpensive.  Assuming that DNAv6
performs its
         checks using small unicast packets (NS/ND), the
          cost of an unsuccessful attempt is small, whereas
the cost of a
         missed opportunity (having the right address
available as a
         candidate and choosing not to try it for some
reason) is large.
         As a result, the best strategy is often to try all
available
         candidate configurations, rather than try to
determine which
         candidates, if any, may be correct for this link,
based on
         heuristics or hints.  For a heuristic to offer the
prospect of
         being a potentially useful way to eliminate
inappropriate
         configurations from the candidate list, that
heuristic has to
         (a) be fast and inexpensive to compute, as compared
to sending
         a small unicast packet, and (b) have high
probability of not
         falsely eliminating a candidate configuration that
could be
         found to be the correct one.

Today, I do not believe that either the "simple
solution" or the "advanced 
solution" meet these requirements.

>   Thanks for the comments. I agree with you as well. I
will be submitting 
>a new version of the simple DNA that addresses few of
the concerns raised 
>with version -00.



Re: Re: Reclassification of DNA Protocol and new Simple DNA protocol
country flaguser name
Canada
2007-11-05 16:22:02
Hi Bernard,
   Thanks for the comments. Please see my responses inline
for simple dna.

Bernard Aboba wrote:
> With respect to the simple solution, I think there are
some basic 
> requirements that it needs to meet.  These are
summarized in RFC 4436 
> Section 1.1 (paraphrased to fit DNAv6):
> 
>      o  DNAv6 is a performance optimization.  Its
purpose is to speed
>         up a process that may require as much as a few
hundred
>         milliseconds (DHCPv6), as well as to reduce
multi-
>         second conflict detection delays when a host
changes networks.

I agree.

> 
>      o  As a performance optimization, it must not
sacrifice
>         correctness.  In other words, false positives
are not
>         acceptable.  DNAv6 must not conclude that a
host has returned
>         to a previously visited link where it has an
operable IP
>         address if this is not in fact the case.

Simple DNA will not produce false positives unless two
routers on two 
different links happen to have the same link local address
and MAC 
address. Is this a likely scenario that needs to be
addressed?

> 
>      o  As a performance optimization, false negatives
are acceptable.
>         It is not an absolute requirement that this
optimization
>         correctly recognize a previously visited link
in all possible
>         cases.  This is acceptable as long as the
>         host still operates correctly as it did without
DNAv6, just
>         without the performance benefit.

I think Simple DNA works as quick as RFC4861 in the worst
case (false 
negative) scenarios.

> 
>      o  As a performance optimization, where DNAv6
fails to provide a
>         benefit, it should add little or no delay
compared to today's
>         RS/RA and DHCPv6 processing.  In practice, this
implies that this
>         processing needs to proceed in parallel. 
Waiting for DNAv6 to
>         fail before beginning RS/RA and DHCPv6
processing can greatly 
> increase
>         total processing time, the opposite of the
desired effect.

This is why we send the RS and the NSs in parallel as you
suggested. 
This ensures that the simple DNA procedure does not run
slower than just 
using RSs.

> 
>      o  Trials are inexpensive.  Assuming that DNAv6
performs its
>         checks using small unicast packets (NS/ND),
the
>          cost of an unsuccessful attempt is small,
whereas the cost of a
>         missed opportunity (having the right address
available as a
>         candidate and choosing not to try it for some
reason) is large.
>         As a result, the best strategy is often to try
all available
>         candidate configurations, rather than try to
determine which
>         candidates, if any, may be correct for this
link, based on
>         heuristics or hints.  For a heuristic to offer
the prospect of
>         being a potentially useful way to eliminate
inappropriate
>         configurations from the candidate list, that
heuristic has to
>         (a) be fast and inexpensive to compute, as
compared to sending
>         a small unicast packet, and (b) have high
probability of not
>         falsely eliminating a candidate configuration
that could be
>         found to be the correct one.

The heuristic in use for simple dna is to store and use the
previous 'n' 
link configurations. Thus it satisfies (a). It we use a
sufficiently 
large value of 'n' we can ensure that (b) is met. We
recommend n to be 2 
but if you think that the number is too low we can increase
it.

Thanks
Suresh




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