Notes and Consensus from Interim Meeting in Hong Kong

Hi JF,

You mention that we need to consider the number of vendors
supporting L2TP in a Softwires context.  Large numbers of
L2TP Softwires users would certainly bolster the L2TP
position.  However, those numbers are not necessary to
demonstrate support, scalability, and manageability of L2TP
for the Softwires service provider.  The reason for this is
that L2TP is just transporting PPP packets for Softwires. 
This is business as usual for an existing implementation of
L2TP.  

Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JF Tremblay [mailto:jean-francois.tremblayhexago.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: Bill Storer (bstorer); Maria A. Dos Santos
(mariados); 
> jordi.paletconsulintel.es; softwiresietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Softwires] Notes and Consensus from
Interim 
> Meeting in Hong Kong
> 
> --On Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:54 AM -0800
"Bill Storer (bstorer)" 
> <bstorercisco.com> wrote:
> 
> > To summarize here:
> 
> Bill,
> Let me add on this.
> 
> > 1. None of the proposed solutions are supported by
standard issue
> > "out of the box" Microsoft Windows. 
All of the solutions will
> > require loading extra software on Windows.
> 
> Right. However, we should differentiate between a
simple application 
> (like a TSP client) and something that requires
integration 
> with the OS 
> such as a new network driver. The level of complexity
involved is 
> different.
> 
> TSP uses existing host resources, that makes a huge 
> difference for the 
> time-to-market requirement.
> 
> > 2. L2TP is closest in
> > the above sense as it is supported by standard
Windows XP for
> > IPv4/IPv4 tunneling.
> 
> TSP also uses standard tunneling in Windows XP for IPv6
in 
> IPv4. (btw, 
> did you mean IPv6/IPv4 in the above statement?)
> 
> > 3. GPL code is available for L2TP.
> 
> Idem for TSP. There are also plan to license the client
under a BSD 
> license.
> 
> > 4. L2TP has been implemented in Windows by NTT and
SixXs.
> 
> L2TP is not yet implemented by the SixXS client, from
what I 
> understand. TSP has been implemented on a wide range of
OS and by CPE 
> manufacturers such as NEC, Draytek and Panasonic. It is
also 
> implemented on the SixXS client.
> 
> > 5. Most importantly, L2TP is widely supported by
the major
> > concentrator vendors.
> 
> Most importantly, how many vendors actually support
L2TP within the 
> softwires context? How many vendors offer L2TP for IPv6
access? How 
> many can support tunneling IPv4 over a native IPv6
network?
> 
> The current deployment of L2TP is indeed a factor to
consider. But we 
> have to consider deployment within the softwires
context. The current 
> deployment of L2TP specific to IPv6 transition is
small.
> 
> And I'd like to add:
> 6. TSP is used and deployed now by several ISPs,
reserach 
> networks and 
> US DoD agencies for IPv6 access. How many end customers
actually use 
> L2TP for IPv6 access now?
> 
> Based on the above information, it's clear that L2TP
and TSP are both 
> very close to the solution we are looking for, with TSP

> having an edge 
> in actual deployment for IPv6 transition.
> 
> IMHO, the question naturally stemming from this is
could we possible 
> consider two protocols to be standardized for
softwires? If we don't, 
> then we should debate modifying the existing criteria
list 
> (possibly to 
> include a clear reference to time-to-market) and then
debate 
> the merits 
> of each protocols in details (i.e. not with wild
guesses).
> 
> JF
> 
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Maria A. Dos Santos (mariados)
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:02 PM
> >> To: jordi.paletconsulintel.es;
softwiresietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [Softwires] Notes and Consensus
from Interim
> >> Meeting in Hong Kong
> >>
> >> Jordi,
> >>
> >> We googled "l2tp client" and found
SixXs release note mentioned
> >>
> >>  "L2TP Support (Yes, even under Windows
one can do IPv6 in
> >> PPP in L2TP "
> >>
> >> a window client that will have l2tp
capability.
> >>
> >> Bill queried Jeroen Massar at SixXs and
confirmed that the
> >> l2tp capability
> >> will probably be available in 2 months to the
public.
> >>
> >> http://www.
sixxs.net/tools/aiccu/history/
> >>
> >> Just one example...
> >>
> >> alice
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
[mailto:jordi.paletconsulintel.es]
> >> > Sent: Friday, 10 March, 2006 9:30
> >> > To: softwiresietf.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [Softwires] Notes and
Consensus from Interim
> >> > Meeting in Hong Kong
> >> >
> >> > Hi David,
> >> >
> >> > I think the main discussion here has been
related to the lack
> >> > of IPv6 support for L2TP in XP (and I
guess is the same in
> >> > W2003). Unless I misread the link that
you provided, I think
> >> > doesn't mention IPv6 support at all.
> >> >
> >> > I also recall having checked with
Microsoft a couple of times
> >> > and they confirmed that will be only
available in Vista. Of
> >> > course, this can change, and that will be
great actually !
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Jordi
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > De: David Ward <dwardcisco.com>
> >> > > Responder a:
<softwires-bouncesietf.org>
> >> > > Fecha: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:12:36
-0600
> >> > > Para: David Ward <dwardcisco.com>, "softwiresietf.org"
> >> > > <softwiresietf.org>,
"Durand, Alain"
> >> > <Alain_Durandcable.comcast.com>
> >> > > Conversación: [Softwires] Notes and
Consensus from Interim
> >> > Meeting in
> >> > > Hong Kong
> >> > > Asunto: Re: [Softwires] Notes and
Consensus from Interim
> >> Meeting in
> >> > > Hong Kong
> >> > >
> >> > > Although I am sitting back allowing
folks to discuss
> >> > various issues, I
> >> > > had to step in w/ the results of a 5
min google search as
> >> > there hasn't
> >> > > been much information presented on
the list wrt what 
> is actually
> >> > > available vs
> >> > > conjecture:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> From Microsoft on L2TP clients:
> >> > >
> >> > > Explains how to get L2TP on XP and
earlier versions of
> >> > windows (yes, I
> >> > > wrote "XP").
> >> > >
> >> > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;
en-us;818043
> >> > >
> >> > > Alice has already sent out how to
turn off IPsec.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Clients for POSIX OS:
> >> > >
> >> > > http://sourc
eforge.net/projects/rp-l2tp/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > A quick google gave this information
on L2TP as well:
> >> > >
> >> > > 0) Cisco support since 2000
> >> > >
> >> > > 1) Juniper:
> >> > >
> >> > > ht
tp://www.juniper.net/products/junose/105016.html
> >> > >
> >> > > The ERX now supports IPv6 for BRAS
(PPP & L2TP)
> >> > >
> >> > > (Since at least September 2003)
> >> > >
> >> > > 2) Laurel (now ECI):
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> 
> http://www.convergedigest.com/PacketSystems/
packetsysarticle.asp?ID=
> >> 11
> >> > > 350
> >> > >
> >> > > Laurel is also releasing new system
software that adds non-stop
> >> > > sessions,
> >> > > IPv6  and LAC (L2TP Access
Concentrator) functionality.
> >> > > http://www.laurelnetwor
ks.com
> >> > >
> >> > > Since at least 07-Jun-04
> >> > >
> >> > > 3) Nortel:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> 
> http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/libra
ry/collateral/66014.25-1
> >> 0-
> >> > > 01.pdf
> >> > >
> >> > > "Nortel Networks GGSN acts as
an L2TP Access 
> Concentrator (LAC).
> >> > > Address allocation, L2TP Network
Server (LNS) and ipv6
> >> routing can
> >> > > take place within those corporate
administrative domains.
> >> > >
> >> > > (Posted October 2001)
> >> > >
> >> > > It appears that both client and
servers are available for
> >> > desired OS
> >> > > and interoperability from various
commercial vendors.
> >> > >
> >> > > -DWard
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
_______________________________________________
> >> > > Softwires mailing list
> >> > > Softwiresietf.org
> >> > > http
s://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
**********************************************
> >> > The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org
> >> >
> >> > Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit
> >> > Slides available at:
> >> > http://www.ipv6-es.com
> >> >
> >> > This electronic message contains
information which may be
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> >> > for the use of the individual(s) named
above. If you are not
> >> > the intended recipient be aware that any
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> >> > distribution or use of the contents of
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> >> > including attached files, is prohibited.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
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Notes and Consensus from Interim Meeting in Hong Kong

Thread: Notes and Consensus from Interim Meeting in Hong Kong