(ISF) Content Management System for a hosting service

The organization I work with (rtpnet.org) provides low-cost
Internet hosting services for North Carolina nonprofit
organizations, using Red Hat Linux, Apache, Mailman, php,
MySQL, etc. We host roughly 150 Web sites. A few of our
members have expressed interest in content management
systems. I've started looking around, but there are soooooo
many. (I'm not the system admin, but would like to help with
the research.)

Is there a CMS we can put on our server that our member
organizations can transparently share or should each
organization have its own CMS?

I've started experimienting with Joomla. I've heard that
Joomla may now have better support than Mambo and that these
are easier to use than Drupal.

Should I be looking at Drupal or a customized Drupal
distribution, like CivicSpace?

I'd appreciate your comments and advice.

Judy Hallman (hallmanrtpnet.org, www.rtpnet.org/hallman)
Executive Director, RTPnet, www.rtpnet.org, Chapel Hill, NC





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-----original message-----
>>The organization I work with (rtpnet.org) provides
low-cost Internet hosting services for North Carolina
nonprofit organizations, using Red Hat Linux, Apache,
Mailman, php, MySQL, etc. We host roughly 150 Web sites. A
few of our members have expressed interest in content
management systems. I've started looking around, but there
are soooooo many. (I'm not the system admin, but would like
to help with the research.)  Is there a CMS we can put on
our server that our member organizations can transparently
share or should each organization have its own CMS? I've
started experimienting with Joomla. I've heard that Joomla
may now have better support than Mambo and that these are
easier to use than Drupal.  Should I be looking at Drupal or
a customized Drupal distribution, like CivicSpace?>>




I'm not sure about the other CMSs, but joomla would probably
be an install for each host.  Joomla is essentially a bunch
of .php files that use the database to store the content.  
I don't remember the install, but I think you give it a
string to prepend to the tables to distinguish one install
from another.   ie, for host 1, their tables would have
HOST1_ prepended to their name.  I think Joomla was derived
from Mambo.  I think most of the developers are working on
Joomla.  I don't know what the reasoning is, but joomla.org
should have the details.

Roger






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Our organization is currently using sendmail on a Apache
Server.  We our source our web and email service, they do
not allow use to install spam filter on the server.  But, as
everyone know we are getting hit with too much spam, and we
do use the client junk mail filter, but that is not enough.

So her are my questions:

Any recommendation on Email application, with filter for an
apache server?

Any feedback on Eudora vs Firstclass (if we decide to have a
in-house server)

Any feedback on a proxy server for junkmail filter?

Any input will be great.  What are others using to fight
SPAM.  Just a FYI we have macintosh platform.

Thanks





=========================================

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Please note that there may be a lag (of hours or days)
between the moment that you send the command and the moment
that you stop receiving messages from this group.  Your list
administrator apologizes for this flaw in the YahooGroups
configuration, but has been unable to shorten the lag from
her end of things.  

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it to deborah_elizabeth_finnpost.harvard.edu .

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om/info/terms/
 

-----original message-----
>>The organization I work with (rtpnet.org) provides
low-cost Internet hosting services for North Carolina
nonprofit organizations, using Red Hat Linux, Apache,
Mailman, php, MySQL, etc. We host roughly 150 Web sites. A
few of our members have expressed interest in content
management systems. I've started looking around, but there
are soooooo many. (I'm not the system admin, but would like
to help with the research.)  Is there a CMS we can put on
our server that our member organizations can transparently
share or should each organization have its own CMS? I've
started experimienting with Joomla. I've heard that Joomla
may now have better support than Mambo and that these are
easier to use than Drupal.  Should I be looking at Drupal or
a customized Drupal distribution, like CivicSpace?>>




I'm not sure about the other CMSs, but joomla would probably
be an install for each host.  Joomla is essentially a bunch
of .php files that use the database to store the content.  
I don't remember the install, but I think you give it a
string to prepend to the tables to distinguish one install
from another.   ie, for host 1, their tables would have
HOST1_ prepended to their name.  I think Joomla was derived
from Mambo.  I think most of the developers are working on
Joomla.  I don't know what the reasoning is, but joomla.org
should have the details.

We host both Joomla! and Civicspace for folks. I'd say
they're both good choices - Joomla! is a little more easily
extensible, Civicspace has more native functionality aimed
at the nonprofit/NGO/Political space. In both cases they're
fairly straightforward LAMP applications to install - make a
database, untar the application into the directory, do some
configuration, and then the hard part starts .  In both
cases its more or less a complete installation for each web
site, though there are some hacks for Joomla if you have a
whole lot of subdomains that need to be managed as a group. 
You CAN use a single database for multiple sites, but I
don't recommend it as some of the add-on products fall on
their faces in that environment - it's much simpler to just
use a separate database for each site.

We've automated most of that. My personal opinion is that
Mambo is all but dead. Anyway, you're right, there are a
whole lot of different open-source CMS systems out there,
and they all have their strengths, weaknesses, and different
proponents.  I think Joomla! and Civicspace are probably
likely candidates to look at.





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that you stop receiving messages from this group.  Your list
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her end of things.  

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Hay Judy

The choice of CMS is an absorbing one.

My method  is called ' the least effort'  - which is rather
equivalent to 'good enough' principle that has been going
around computing lately.

you need to be comfortable with uncertainty.

Your first challenge is to determine your own requirements
(thats the only certainty you have, and its very important
that you pin it down), it is worth investing a litle time
making sure you know exactly what the system needs to do,
not just today, but tomorrow as well . try to think ahead.

the way i do this is sit back, and think: what would I want
my system to do? in two years time, what would my system do
for me?  (havent found a cms that cooks me breakfast yet,
but its not far, I can see it coming).

the more exact you can determine your requirements, the
better cms choice you'll make

then shortlist the cms that, at least on paper, provide the
functionlaity that you require

I have found that there are a lot of good tools out there
for example like midgard too, is in a similar class as mambo
and drupal, and lots of others, but it doesnt get mentioned
that much

i d recommend you try it out on opensourcecms.com, it lets
you play a little with things

I also notice a great deal of personal preferences affect
people choices, make sure that you are not left with a tool
that someone else preference, because people come and go,
choices of tools stay

so I chose to work with what I - and my users - are  most
comfortable with, I dont care  if other systems offer more
functionality, really, or there is more publicity around it
-  its the user personal preference that counts,

try to simulate all the opearations that you and your users
are likely to have to carry out routinely using the system,
and see which sytem makes that easier for you, maybe set up
a test user group and ask people to test run

there is a variable relationship between people's skills and
the technology they use, if you are a unix administrator for
example, you are likely to be more confortable using a
particular cms than someone who is not

I have had some 'experts' giving me really bad advice,
because they were trying to sell me their expertise - 
people will pray upon your ignorance and will try to
convince you that your 'preference' is wrong,  so that they
can sell you their service -  you' may have to disregard
some of the  good advice that you ll be given along the way,
as a lot of what people say, ultimately, may be miselading
unless it relates to your purpose

stick to your requirements/brief , set up some mock tasks,
and see what system allows you to accomplish your goal with
the least effort. that, I would say, is the right system for
you

most of all, keep an open mind.  if something works, use it,
if not, there is something else out there that will work for
sure.

the exercise above may cost you a couple of weeks of work,
but it will reduce your risk of failure,  it will save you a
lot of time and disappontment in the long ter and you'll end
up with an 'informed' decision

lately for p2paid.org  we have evaluated (and loaded to the
server) mambo, drupal, civicrm, and a few others.  Only
after trying them all,  we are in a position to know whats
our equation:  team skills/technology choice.

Basically, all the tools that we have looked at do what we
require,, with different degrees of time involvement and
people skills , plus knowledge of tool

If someone from mambo or civicrm team would have loved our
project and said: I can set this up for your real quick,  we
would have chosen any of the above.

Instead one particular drupal guy said: I am really excited
by your project, i can set up your required functionality
real quick,  - that was my 'least effort' choice, the right
decision for that particular moment, until next condition
becomes true...

pdm




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Please note that there may be a lag (of hours or days)
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To send a message to the list administrator (Deborah), email
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Judy-

I think there are two ways to look at this:

(1) A community

(2) A technology decision

We've spent so much time teaching nonprofits that they need
to make technology decisions, they really don't understand
this new form of open source community that is emerging to
support social change and the organizations that accomplish
social change like RTPNet. I outlined some of this thinking
in a post: When Technology Decisions aren't Technology
Decisions. (http://socialsource.blogspot.com/20
05/12/when-technology-decisions-arent.html)

CiviCRM and the other tool-builders that focus on nonprofits
enable RTPnet and folks like you the capability to offer not
just a website, but a website that will do simple events
management for a nonprofit, run a donor database, accept
online donations, etc.

Currently, the biggest community of folks working on this
issue is from drupal/civicspace/civicrm communities. But
CiviCRM also works in Joomla, you just don't get the same
community of folks working to support nonprofits.

Making a decision today, I would tend to suggest
drupal/civicspace/civicrm. Because you can offer small
nonprofits a wide array of applications that do what they
need to do (run a website, manage volunteers, track
donations, etc.

Drupal is more complex and more powerful than Joomla, for
example. And with that power comes opportunities.

In the end, if all you want to do is allow users to host
static brochure-ware sites, there are many CMS options. You
can try most of them at http://www.opensourcec
ms.com/.

If what you would like to do is offer more options to the
nonprofits you serve, you want to consider investing the
(not insignificant) time in learning enough about drupal to
host it and the applications people are building for it.

david

-- 
\\\\\\\///////////////
David Geilhufe
Try CiviCRM! http://www.openngo.org/
dgeilhufesocialsourcefoundation.org
409-781-1580

Add me to your address book... <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=3435
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-----original message-----
>>The organization I work with (rtpnet.org) provides
low-cost Internet hosting services for North Carolina
nonprofit organizations, using Red Hat Linux, Apache,
Mailman, php, MySQL, etc. We host roughly 150 Web sites. A
few of our members have expressed interest in content
management systems. I've started looking around, but there
are soooooo many. (I'm not the system admin, but would like
to help with the research.) > Is there a CMS we can put
on our server that our member organizations can
transparently share or should each organization have its own
CMS?>>




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The Information Systems Forum is an opt-in, low-traffic,
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To Information_Systems_Forum@yahoogroups.com and
nten-discusslist.nten.org,

I really appreciate all the useful information I've received
from these two lists. I have a lot of work to do, but I now
have some confidence in where to direct my efforts.

I plan to proceed with Joomla! for the one organization that
has expressed interest in it and to try out
drupal/civicspace/civicrm. I had seen messages about
CiviCRM, but it didn't register. CiviCRM might be just what
we need to attract new nonprofit members. It's going to take
a while for me to finish up current projects and get started
on learning CMSs.

Thanks to all for your help and especially for offers of
future assistance.

Judy Hallman (hallmanrtpnet.org, www.rtpnet.org/hallman)
Executive Director, RTPnet, www.rtpnet.org, Chapel Hill, NC





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