Re: Incoming - software licenses

On 2007-07-18 15:18, Black_Davidemc.com wrote:
> Brian, 
> 
>> On 2007-07-17 18:24, Black_Davidemc.com
wrote:
>> ...
>>> A starting point may be that some sort of
exception and official
>>> approval could be required for code with a
license that does not
>>> permit the copyright grant to the IETF Trust
required by the
>>> -incoming document.  
>> My starting point would be to tell the person
attempting to
>> contribute the code to go find its original author
and have
>> them grant the necessary license to the IETF,
independently of
>> whatever other license they have put it under, and
repeat until
>> done. I think making exceptions possible will
produce a world
>> of hurt.
> 
> That's a fine starting point, but (IMHO) it's already
insufficient,
> because:
> 
> Exceptions are already happening - cf. Simon's example
of LGPL
> Base64 code, and I believe Simon has already brought a
number of
> other examples to our attention.  Ignoring this issue
is a decision
> that the existing exception process(es) are what we
want.  I'd
> prefer that to be a conscious decision rather than
something that
> happens by default.
> 
> Also, there needs to be a warning somewhere for those
without
> sensitive legal antennae that the copyright provisions
in -incoming
> conflict with copyleft software licenses.  The warning
could be in
> an FAQ or some sort of notice in the submission process
and/or tool;
> it doesn't have to be in the -incoming document itself.
 My concern
> here is that I suspect that the members of this mailing
list are
> among the minority that understand the conflict between
copyleft
> and the -incoming copyright grant.  

But I think if we include that warning we have to offer a
work-around
which doesn't lead to exception handling in *our* process -
put the
onus for the work-around on the person who wrote the code
and decided
to encumber it with copyleft in the first place.

     Brian

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Brian

I think I agree with this line of thought - here are some
more
detailed ideas to move this along:

- Whatever IETF exception process exists for restrictive
software
	licenses needs to be a process of last resort.
- As input to the process, we should require the requester
of the
	exception to demonstrate that the code cannot be obtained
	under conditions that allow the copyright grant required
	by the -incoming draft. (i.e., the default hypothesis is
	that the code can be obtained under suitable conditions,
	and it is the requester's responsibility to disprove this
	hypothesis).
- The requester should not expect IETF to act on his/her
behalf
	in attempting to obtain the code or assisting with
obtaining
	the code.
- Absent a convincing demonstration that the code is not
available
	under conditions that permit the copyright grant, the
	exception should be denied.

Thanks,
--David


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpentergmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:42 AM
> To: Black, David
> Cc: simonjosefsson.org; ipr-wgietf.org
> Subject: Re: Incoming - software licenses
> 
> On 2007-07-18 15:18, Black_Davidemc.com wrote:
> > Brian, 
> > 
> >> On 2007-07-17 18:24, Black_Davidemc.com
wrote:
> >> ...
> >>> A starting point may be that some sort of
exception and official
> >>> approval could be required for code with a
license that does not
> >>> permit the copyright grant to the IETF
Trust required by the
> >>> -incoming document.  
> >> My starting point would be to tell the person
attempting to
> >> contribute the code to go find its original
author and have
> >> them grant the necessary license to the IETF,
independently of
> >> whatever other license they have put it under,
and repeat until
> >> done. I think making exceptions possible will
produce a world
> >> of hurt.
> > 
> > That's a fine starting point, but (IMHO) it's
already insufficient,
> > because:
> > 
> > Exceptions are already happening - cf. Simon's
example of LGPL
> > Base64 code, and I believe Simon has already
brought a number of
> > other examples to our attention.  Ignoring this
issue is a decision
> > that the existing exception process(es) are what
we want.  I'd
> > prefer that to be a conscious decision rather than
something that
> > happens by default.
> > 
> > Also, there needs to be a warning somewhere for
those without
> > sensitive legal antennae that the copyright
provisions in -incoming
> > conflict with copyleft software licenses.  The
warning could be in
> > an FAQ or some sort of notice in the submission
process and/or tool;
> > it doesn't have to be in the -incoming document
itself.  My concern
> > here is that I suspect that the members of this
mailing list are
> > among the minority that understand the conflict
between copyleft
> > and the -incoming copyright grant.  
> 
> But I think if we include that warning we have to offer
a work-around
> which doesn't lead to exception handling in *our*
process - put the
> onus for the work-around on the person who wrote the
code and decided
> to encumber it with copyleft in the first place.
> 
>      Brian
> 
> 

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