Hi,
I have tried hard to just stay out of any conversation
including Todd,
but I think this one deserves comment.
Todd, I don't know whether you do not understand how the
IETF actually
works, or you choose to describe it using your own ideas of
how it
works, but that the use of non-standard terminology makes it
very hard
for others to understand whether your points are worthwhile
or not.
To my knowledge, there is no "publishing desk"
in the IETF.
To my knowledge, there is no "Publisher's ID
template" in the IETF.
I concur that the I-D publication procoess is not a
"mechanical
apparatus".
And I concur that the "mechanics" of I-D
publication is not what the
IPR WG should be focusing on.
I have taken the time to walk through some of your comments,
and in
general, I find that your approach of refusing to properly
understand
the IETF process leads you to make erroneous assumptions and
proposals
that are not really relevant to this WG.
I also find that the tremendous number of posts you make,
ignoring
most feedback except to fight with Harald, makes it a real
waste of my
time and the time of others to follow this WG's mailing
list. I really
do wish that you would just stop posting to this list so the
WG
members can try to get some real work done.
As a WG chair, I consider the manner in which Harald
responded to be
appropriate for a WG chair. He pointed out that you did not
put your
proposal into terminology consistent with the description of
IETF
processes that has been accepted by consensus of the IETF
community,
and that you should use IETF terminology. This is the type
of
communication I would use when trying to explain to a poster
why their
posting is not useful, and how they could improve their
postings to
make them more useful.
I also find your postings in response to Harald insulting
and
incendiary and totally inappropriate.
Please stop.
David Harrington
dharrington huawei.com
dbharringtoncomcast.net
ietfdbhcomcast.net
Standards Manager, IP OAM and Security
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
North American Division
> -----Original Message-----
> From: todd glassey [mailto:todd.glasseyworldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:32 AM
> To: Harald Alvestrand; todd glassey
> Cc: ipr-wgietf.org
> Subject: Re: Internet Draft Description - New Language?
>
>
> Harald - you really are obnoxious arent you? Your
commentary
> makes this a
> personal matter and is abusive in language. That abuse
will stop
> immediately.
>
> As to the obnoxious response you sent out - that is
not an
objective
> answer. Its apparently more of how you personally react
to
> being challanged
> as to what you are up to. Either answer the question
> specifically or admit
> that you DONT WANT TO ANSWER what uses any IETF
Documents
> require outside of
> the IETF's Standards Process, because this would
expose the
> intents of some
> PPL here to convert the IETF into an Open Source Arena
which
> it isnt today!
>
> So Harald - PUT UP OR SHUT UP - either define the
specific
> uses and justify
> the licenise requirements for each or admit that NO
Licenses
> are necessary
> within the IETF's Standards Framework beyond the
IETF's
> Copyright, and the
> ONLY REASON the IETF needs copyright protection is to
> protect the IP from
> "unauthoprized publication outside of the IETF's
Standards
Framework".
>
> The purpose of the (C) is to protect the IP from being
abuse
> by people who
> dont own it. So ... Harald - what licenses specifically
are
> necessary and
> why???
>
> Todd
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harald Alvestrand" <haraldalvestrand.no>
> To: "todd glassey" <todd.glasseyatt.net>
> Cc: <ipr-wgietf.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Internet Draft Description - New Language?
>
>
> > todd glassey wrote:
> > > In response to this comment Harald -
> > >
> > > Harald -
> > > The submission of an ID is a mechanical
apparatus used to get
the
> Publishing
> > > Desk to take notice of something and that is
really what
> it is. The
> > > Publishers ID Template itself the naked
structure for
> encapsulating
> content
> > > in to submit to the publishing desk...
> > >
> > > Now.. what was it I mised there? Why you
submit it for
> publishing is a
> > > totally different question as to what the I-D
itself is.
> The question is
> > > what rights those uses require if any outside
of the
> IETF, and you keep
> > > avoiding that question.
> > >
> > > So what was it I missed Harald?
> > >
> > Just about everything.
> >
> > The submission of an I-D is not a
"mechanical apparatus" - it is a
> > procedure carried out by people.
>
> Are you just totally incompetent Harald or is it you
just
> like arguing with
> me personally (WHICH we all know is clearly true by
now)...
>
> > There is no "Publishing Desk" - there
is an IETF secretariat that
> > carries out the procedure of I-D publishing.
>
> HARALD - How is it that people submit media to the
IETF???.
> They email it to
> the Submissions Alias which is "the Publications
Desk". So
> yes there is a
> Publications Desk - it is the reception point for
submissions
> to the IETF
>
> > There is no "Publishers ID Template" -
there is required
> boilerplate.
>
> OH, yea? then what the hell is the template attached
to this
> mailing wise
> guy?
>
> > And finally, the mechanics of I-D publication is
not something
that
> > needs to determine the IPR issues we are trying to
discuss here.
>
> Yes it is and you are clearly part of what is screwing
up
> what is going on
> here - SO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS HARALD - What Rights are
> needed outside the
> IETF and WHY...
>
> >
> > I see no relevant content in your contribution.
> >
> > Harald
>
> I see abuse in your response since it documents your
gross
> incompentence in
> operating as one of the managers, silent or otherwise,
of the
> IETF's IP
> fiasco. You may not like it Harald but answer the
question or
> close this WG
> down. WHAT RIGHTS AND LICENSES do PPL outside of the
IETF
> need against the
> IETF materials to participate in the IETF's Standards
Process???
>
> Any I am bettiing in your grossly neglegent manner that
you
> will NOT answer
> this question until this matter gets into a court of
law
> assbite where it is
> headed if you dont formally answer this question. WHAT
> FRICKEN RIGHTS DOES
> ANYONE NEED OUTSIDE OF THE IETF'S process.
>
> Todd Glassey
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Ipr-wgietf.org
> https:/
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>
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