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Thread: Re: Why Maven sucks (part 1)




Re: Why Maven sucks (part 1)
user name
2008-04-21 16:39:59
Ovidiu Feodorov wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Rémy
> 
> The system I am talking about I delegates the build
tasks to ant, 
> feeding it with the appropriate dependency information.
In this respect, 
> your build can be as simple as "ant", no need
for maven commands.

Awesome. This is exactly how it should be. The whole idea of
limiting a 
project to 5 build commands is flawed. Using
"profiles" to solve this 
limitation is also flawed (and confusing).

How does your system compare to Ivy (besides support for
native code 
integration)? Do you have any plans to support pulling from
maven2 repos 
as a stop-gap?

> In order to implement this, the dependency manager
recursively walks the 
> dependency tree and detects the transitive closure of
your project's 
> dependencies, "flattens" the dependency tree,
and in its current 
> implementation, it just bails out with a loud error
message when it 
> detects a version conflict. It doesn't try to
"guess" anything, even 
> that heuristics can be optionally plugged in (I am
personally afraid of 
> heuristics, they have a habit of yielding unexpected
results, so I won't 
> encourage that)
> 
> Here's the manual: htt
p://fragma.sourceforge.net/FragmaUserGuide.pdf

Do you have any more information on how the Java integration
works (or 
is planned to work)? These sections are empty in the
manual.

> As I said before, my proposal is to use it to configure
a small 
> peripheral project, and if conclusions prove to be
positive, decide what 
> to do from there, in case you guys decide to go this
route.

I have to say, I really like the idea of having a build
system that can 
be adjusted to fit our needs, as opposed to changing our
needs to fit 
the build system (maven).

-- 
Jason T. Greene
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
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Re: Why Maven sucks (part 1)
user name
2008-04-21 17:13:09
Jason T. Greene wrote:
> Ovidiu Feodorov wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Rémy
>>
>> The system I am talking about I delegates the build
tasks to ant, 
>> feeding it with the appropriate dependency
information. In this 
>> respect, your build can be as simple as
"ant", no need for maven 
>> commands.
>
> Awesome. This is exactly how it should be. The whole
idea of limiting 
> a project to 5 build commands is flawed. Using
"profiles" to solve 
> this limitation is also flawed (and confusing).
>
> How does your system compare to Ivy (besides support
for native code 
> integration)? Do you have any plans to support pulling
from maven2 
> repos as a stop-gap?

 From a dependency management perspective, Ivy and Fragma
are pretty 
much the same thing, except obviously the fact that Fragma
supports 
generically "attributed" artifacts, which is
essential for heterogeneous 
development environments. Not JBoss' case, maybe with the
exception of 
JBossWeb and its support for native connector code.

If you really interested in a point-to-point comparison, I
could add 
that to the manual.

Fragma supports the concept of "generic
repository", so it will support 
Maven repositories, if there's interest for it.


>
>> In order to implement this, the dependency manager
recursively walks 
>> the dependency tree and detects the transitive
closure of your 
>> project's dependencies, "flattens" the
dependency tree, and in its 
>> current implementation, it just bails out with a
loud error message 
>> when it detects a version conflict. It doesn't try
to "guess" 
>> anything, even that heuristics can be optionally
plugged in (I am 
>> personally afraid of heuristics, they have a habit
of yielding 
>> unexpected results, so I won't encourage that)
>>
>> Here's the manual: htt
p://fragma.sourceforge.net/FragmaUserGuide.pdf
>
> Do you have any more information on how the Java
integration works (or 
> is planned to work)? These sections are empty in the
manual.

The manual is outdated.

You mean "Ant" integration, not Java, right?

Java integration works, Fragma uses itself for dependency
management, so 
it's got to work.
>
>> As I said before, my proposal is to use it to
configure a small 
>> peripheral project, and if conclusions prove to be
positive, decide 
>> what to do from there, in case you guys decide to
go this route.
>
> I have to say, I really like the idea of having a build
system that 
> can be adjusted to fit our needs, as opposed to
changing our needs to 
> fit the build system (maven).

I am up for it.

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