Wildcard and SRV records (too much subdomains)

I have an ejabberd server, that will be serving for about 25
vhosts very 
soon, but i was configuring my dns server and i noted that
for 2 or 3 
domains SRV records for _xmpp-server _xmpp-client _jabber
will be ok, 
but i will have 25 vhosts and maybe more, and i won't like
to have 3 
records per vhost 
I tried this:

_jabber._tcp.*.home.cu. IN SRV 5 0 5269 xanthe.home.cu.
_xmpp-server._tcp.*.home.cu. IN SRV 5 0 5269
xanthe.home.cu.
_xmpp-client._tcp.*.home.cu. IN SRV 5 0 5222
xanthe.home.cu.

but this is not working, when i query the server i get
this:

;; ANSWER SECTION:
_xmpp-server._tcp.*.home.cu. 604800 IN   SRV     5 0 5269
xanthe.home.cu.

hehe is working but not as i want :(



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On Monday 05 March 2007 03:16:09 am Manuel Mely wrote:
> hehe is working but not as i want :(

First off, you don't need the _jabber SRV-- it's obsolete.
Secondly, wildcards are the job of your DNS server, not your
XMPP server 
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Luke-Jr wrote:
> On Monday 05 March 2007 03:16:09 am Manuel Mely wrote:
>> hehe is working but not as i want :(
> 
> First off, you don't need the _jabber SRV-- it's
obsolete.
> Secondly, wildcards are the job of your DNS server, not
your XMPP server 
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Yes i know that wildcard is a job of my DNS server, but i
was asking if 
somebody have this and could help me. I don't know if this
is an OT 
message because i'm talking about DNS, but it has something
of xmpp stuff.


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Manuel Mely Pérez
2do Año Ingeniería en Telecomunicaciones. CUJAE
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Hi Manuel!

Manuel Mely schrieb:
> I have an ejabberd server, that will be serving for
about 25 vhosts very
> soon, but i was configuring my dns server and i noted
that for 2 or 3
> domains SRV records for _xmpp-server _xmpp-client
_jabber will be ok,
> but i will have 25 vhosts and maybe more, and i won't
like to have 3
> records per vhost 

Well it's a matter of your taste what you do like, but
technically I see
no problem having 25 entries in your zone file.

My taste: As long as you have a known and finite set of
domains (doesn't
matter how many, that's just a matter of using the right
tool to manage
your zones), you should not use wildcards anyway. Wildcards
make unused
domains visible to the DNS. Causing other systems try to
deliver
messages (not only XMPP ones) to your system. Wildcards
should only be
used if set set of domains are either unknown or infinite.
(E.g. if you
are operating a gateway to a non-internet network, e.g.
FidoNet.)

Back on topic:

> I tried this:
> 
> _jabber._tcp.*.home.cu. IN SRV 5 0 5269
xanthe.home.cu.
> _xmpp-server._tcp.*.home.cu. IN SRV 5 0 5269
xanthe.home.cu.
> _xmpp-client._tcp.*.home.cu. IN SRV 5 0 5222
xanthe.home.cu.

Is xanthe.home.cu the same host as the host addressed by
your wildcard
record? In that case (as already said by others) you do not
need the SRV
records at all. They are just needed to redirect traffic to
a host
different than the one that gets resolved by the A record or
to redirect
the traffic to a non-standard TCP port.


Matthias

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On 3/5/07, Manuel Mely <mmelypgmail.com> wrote:
> I have an ejabberd server, that will be serving for
about 25 vhosts very
> soon, but i was configuring my dns server and i noted
that for 2 or 3
> domains SRV records for _xmpp-server _xmpp-client
_jabber will be ok,
> but i will have 25 vhosts and maybe more, and i won't
like to have 3
> records per vhost 

What about using $INCLUDE [1] with an origin of your xmpp
domain.
That way you'd only have one include line per hosted
domain,
(including another file which does the SRV records, etc)

[1] http://www.isc.org/sw/bind/arm94/Bv9ARM.ch06.html#id2
591546

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On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 12:36:49AM +0100, Matthias Wimmer
wrote:
> Is xanthe.home.cu the same host as the host addressed
by your wildcard
> record? In that case (as already said by others) you do
not need the SRV
> records at all. They are just needed to redirect
traffic to a host
> different than the one that gets resolved by the A
record or to redirect
> the traffic to a non-standard TCP port.

SRV records SHOULD ALWAYS be there. Even if it is not needed
(as A
record would be enough) other servers will ask for them
before trying A
record. A is only a fallback and using it as the only way to
get a
server address is discouraged. You would not set up a mail
server
without MX record, would you?

And for some servers missing SRV records will cause
unnecessary s2s
delays.

Greets,
        Jacek
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Hi Jacek!

Jacek Konieczny schrieb:
> SRV records SHOULD ALWAYS be there. Even if it is not
needed (as A
> record would be enough) other servers will ask for them
before trying A
> record. A is only a fallback and using it as the only
way to get a
> server address is discouraged. You would not set up a
mail server
> without MX record, would you?

Well I do run everything with SRV records myself and I am
very much
advertizing that they should be set always. But it would be
wrong
telling this guy, that he has to use the SRV records.

... I'd even love to see, that SRV records would get
required. It would
allow a server, gateway, ... to see if a domain is used for
XMPP. This
would be especially helpful for server supporting different
protocols to
do inter-domain messaging. (E.g. a XMPP+SIMPLE server).


Matthias

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On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Matthias Wimmer wrote:
>
> ... I'd even love to see, that SRV records would get
required. It would
> allow a server, gateway, ... to see if a domain is used
for XMPP. This
> would be especially helpful for server supporting
different protocols to
> do inter-domain messaging. (E.g. a XMPP+SIMPLE
server).

The MX-to-A fallback in email is a pain in the neck, so I
would support
getting rid of the SRV-to-A fallback in XMPP. It'll make it
that much more
difficult for rogue servers.

Tony.
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On Tuesday 06 March 2007 10:17, Tony Finch wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Matthias Wimmer wrote:
> > ... I'd even love to see, that SRV records would
get required. It would
> > allow a server, gateway, ... to see if a domain is
used for XMPP. This
> > would be especially helpful for server supporting
different protocols to
> > do inter-domain messaging. (E.g. a XMPP+SIMPLE
server).
>
> The MX-to-A fallback in email is a pain in the neck, so
I would support
> getting rid of the SRV-to-A fallback in XMPP. It'll
make it that much more
> difficult for rogue servers.
>
> Tony.

The fallback to A helps simplify the setup of small
deployments since the 
server administrator may not understand DNS as well as they
should and also 
may be working with managed a DNS tool that does not support
SRV records, 
like zoneedit.com, for example.  So I would consider the
removal of a 
fallback to always be a barrier to legitimate users and only
sometimes a 
barrier to illegitimate ones.

Like Jacek said, even though you *could* setup a mail server
without an MX 
record, few or no email admins would even consider it in
this day and age.  
Likewise, despite initially knowing nothing about SRV
records, I would not 
consider setting up an XMPP without them now.

Ciao

-- 
Dominic Lepiane
The IRMACS Centre
Simon Fraser University


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Tony Finch wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Matthias Wimmer wrote:
>> ... I'd even love to see, that SRV records would
get required. It would
>> allow a server, gateway, ... to see if a domain is
used for XMPP. This
>> would be especially helpful for server supporting
different protocols to
>> do inter-domain messaging. (E.g. a XMPP+SIMPLE
server).
> 
> The MX-to-A fallback in email is a pain in the neck, so
I would support
> getting rid of the SRV-to-A fallback in XMPP. It'll
make it that much more
> difficult for rogue servers.

Unfortunately it may make things much more difficult for
legitimate 
servers, too.  Heck,
we're still trying to get people like DreamHost 
to stop using _jabber._tcp SRV records 2+ years after they
were 
deprecated. But at least they support SRV. Many DNS
providers don't. 
However, I do agree it would be good to phase out the
fallbacks, the 
question is when.

/psa


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