Compunnel Hotlist -Resources Available in System Engineer / Network Admin.

I'd say that the majority of our users (faculty and
students alike) are very
confused by it.... 

Vivie

--
Vivie Sinou
Dean, Learning Technology & Innovations
ETUDES Consortium Project
Foothill College 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Ross [mailto:dave.rossgmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:57 AM
> To: sakai-devcollab.sakaiproject.org
> Subject: Re: More Portal Improvement - Resetting state
for 2.3
> 
> I wouldn't say our users "depend" on it -
but I would say 
> they've learned to live with it. I highly doubt any of
our 
> users would be sad to see it gone and it would prevent
so 
> much time spent in training the users to know and love
the 
> "reset tool" button. I think it should be
an institutional 
> option as Chuck has proposed.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> On 9/15/06, Michael S Elledge <elledgemsu.edu> wrote:
> > That's a very good point, Lance. This seems like
too significant a 
> > change to user expectations to make it anything
but an option. IMHO 
> > default behavior should remain the same from
version to 
> > version--unless there is uniform agreement and
anticipation 
> for a radical improvement..
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Lance Speelmon wrote:
> > > Chuck,
> > >
> > > Our users (both novice and advanced) have
come to depend on the 
> > > tools saving state.  As long as we do not end
in a 
> situation where 
> > > this is no longer possible, we are fine with
the 
> experimentation.  
> > > Thanks, L
> > >
> > >
> > > Lance Speelmon lanceindiana.edu
> > > Manager Online Development / Sakai Release
Manager
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 15, 2006, at 6:24 AM, Charles
Severance wrote:
> > >
> > >> We have a bunch of requirements about
"saving state 
> across navigation"
> > >> Legacy tools should not save state
> > >>
> > >> http
://bugs.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/REQ-285
> > >>
> > >> Sakai remembers state - optional?
> > >>
> > >> http
://bugs.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-737
> > >> Sakai Saving State - Moving between tools
and within pages of a 
> > >> tool should behave conistently for users.
> > >>
> > >> http:
//bugs.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/REQ-37
> > >>
> > >> Basically the use case is simple - every
time you move between 
> > >> tools or between sites, the tool that you
"come back to" 
> needs to 
> > >> be at its initial screen.
> > >>
> > >> In Sakai 2.2 - when you "come
back" you are brought back 
> to where 
> > >> you left and the tool is in the state you
left it.
> > >>
> > >> As an example:
> > >>
> > >> Go to resources - press the Add button -
Go to Home - Go Back to 
> > >> Resources - what do you see?
> > >>
> > >> In the state saving approach - you are at
the Add screen 
> - in the 
> > >> state clearing approach you are at the
top of the resources 
> > >> hierarchy as if you pressed Resources for
the first time.
> > >>
> > >> This historically has been a hotly
debated topic (lets 
> not replay 
> > >> that now - although we might want to
discuss it in 
> Atlanta).  The 
> > >> two points of view basically are this (1)
advanced users 
> *really* 
> > >> like the ability to pop back and forth
between things and take a 
> > >> quick look at another tool while in the
middle of something in 
> > >> their main too and (2) this confuses the
HECK out of beginning 
> > >> users - they never find the reset button.
> > >>
> > >> Sadly - both of these arguments are
pretty good.  The notion of 
> > >> state saving across navigation kind of
comes form the "portal" 
> > >> world where there are multiple tools on a
page and interactions 
> > >> with one tool do not change the state of
another tool.  
> Effectively 
> > >> you *had* to save state when multiple
portlets were active 
> > >> (especially on the same page).  Hence
state saving as default 
> > >> throughout the life of Sakai so far.
> > >>
> > >> We had always talked about an
"option" because there was such 
> > >> strong (and valid) disagreement.  For 2.3
there will be 
> just such an option:
> > >>
> > >> portal.experimental.auto.reset=true
> > >>
> > >> We will ship with the default turned off
- kind of like a 
> > >> provisional feature.  The feature works
and is very 
> clean - it only 
> > >> affects the portal code (Charon) - there
are no changes 
> to tools or 
> > >> filters or any part of the Sakai
framework.  This is literally 
> > >> "reset tool state" when
navigating back to a tool.  Frankly, if 
> > >> folks really felt strongly this is so
clean it could be 
> a personal 
> > >> preference - but that is another debate
entirely.
> > >>
> > >> I would like folks to use this and
experiment with this.
> > >>
> > >> This could be easily back-ported to 2.2. 
With some 
> effort it could 
> > >> even go back to 2.0 and 2.1 (commits
14687 and 14596).  
> All of the 
> > >> modifications were done this week.  I am
not going to do 
> these back 
> > >> ports - I need to get back to marketing
Sakai - Integration week 
> > >> has been fun but I don't have the luxury
of coding much any more.
> > >>
> > >> Looking forward - I think that we need to
get community reaction 
> > >> about how to go forward - I am sure the
discussion will 
> be lively.  
> > >> I see a few diffeent directions this
might take (debate over the 
> > >> default - always fun and debate whether
or not we make this a 
> > >> personal preference).
> > >>
> > >> I also think that as we move towards
JSR-168 and an even more 
> > >> "portlet view" of the world,
we might need to revisit 
> this again so 
> > >> as to properly fit into portals.
> > >>
> > >> Nothing is simple - but at least for now
we have options.
> > >>
> > >> /Chuck
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------
> > >> This automatic notification message was
sent by Sakai Collab
> > >> (https://collab
.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: 
> Development site.
> > >> You can modify how you receive
notifications at My Workspace > 
> > >> Preferences.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > [see attachment: "message0.html",
size: 8171 bytes]
> > >
> > >
> > > Attachments:
> > >
> > > message0.html
> > > 
> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/conte
nt/attachment/6d26898b-3
> > > 1f3-46b0-805e-c428ff0d84ad/message0.html
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > This automatic notification message was sent
by Sakai Collab
> > > (https://collab
.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: User site.
> > > You can modify how you receive notifications
at My Workspace > 
> > > Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by
Sakai 
> Collab (https://collab
.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: 
> User site.
> > You can modify how you receive notifications at My

> Workspace > Preferences.
> >
> >
> 
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai
Collab 
> (https://collab
.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: 
> Development site.
> You can modify how you receive notifications at My
Workspace 
> > Preferences.
> 


----------------------
This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
(https://collab
.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development site.
You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace
> Preferences.