Power failure - unexpected?

Hi everybody,

  we´ve got an M320 with 4 power modules, a single routing
engine and 
the following FPC´s:

1 FPC type 1 (with 2xGigE)
1 FPC type 2 (with 3xOC-48)
1 FPC type 3 (with 2x10GE)

During a maintenance, we had to turn off only 2 power
modules, but 
unfortunately the whole box went down ...

According to docs, I was expecting the router to stay up and
running, 
once this is not a fully "loaded" router (without
lots of FPC type 3, 
for instance).

What went wrong ? ;)

Are there circumstances where I can turn off 2 power modules
and M320 
stay running?


Regards

-- 
Raniery Pontes
::::::::::::::::::::::
ranieryrnp.br
http://www.rnp.br/ceo/



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>   we´ve got an M320 with 4 power modules, a single
routing engine and 
> the following FPC´s:
> 
> 1 FPC type 1 (with 2xGigE)
> 1 FPC type 2 (with 3xOC-48)
> 1 FPC type 3 (with 2x10GE)
> 
> During a maintenance, we had to turn off only 2 power
modules, but 
> unfortunately the whole box went down ...
> 
> According to docs, I was expecting the router to stay
up and running, 
> once this is not a fully "loaded" router
(without lots of FPC type 3, 
> for instance).
> 
> What went wrong ? ;)
> 
> Are there circumstances where I can turn off 2 power
modules and M320 
> stay running?

It depends on type of power module (AC or DC) and *which*
modules you
remove. An M320 can operate with two out of four DC power
supplies (we
have verified this):

http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/hardwa
re/m320/fru-m320-dc-power-supply.pdf

and from what I can see, it can also operate with two out of
four AC
power supplies:

http://www.ju
niper.net/techpubs/hardware/m320/m320-ac-power-supply-fru/m3
20-ac-power-supply-fru.pdf

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaugnethelp.no

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Thanks for the reply.

The "problem" is we´re using AC power supplies and
documentation for 
these modules (thanks Steinar) is less detailed than for DC
power 
suplies. In my case it seems it doesn´t matter *which*
module is turned 
off (differently from DC power suplies).

 From the same doc:
"A minimum of three AC power supplies provides full
power redundancy.If
one power supply fails or is removed, the remaining power
supplies 
instantly assume the entire electrical load. Two power
supplies provide 
the minimum configuration with full power for as long as the
router is 
operational."

The last sentence is really unclear to me. I still don´t
know in what 
FPC/PICs/hardware combinations I can turn off 2 power
supplies without 
turning off the router.


Raniery


James Cornman escreveu:
> From what I recall, The m320 in DC mode, power supply 1
is redundant for 
> supply 0, and 3 for supply 2. So assuming you have a
redundant power 
> supply powered for your maintenance, it should not have
caused an issue. 
> Meaning, if you have 0 and 2 powered, and powered off 1
or 3, it should be 
> fine. The power layout on the M320 is a bit confusing
and i've gotten 
> caught with this same problem. Certain aspects of the
chassis are powered 
> by the 2 sets of power supplies. Meaning if you turn
off power supplies 2 
> and 3, your SIB/SFM modules could lose power, or FPCs
in slots 4 thru 7 or 
> something could lose power. I'm not sure of the exact
specifics, the 
> document that was linked earlier can help.
> 
> 
> Good luck
> 
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2007, sthaugnethelp.no wrote:
> 
> | >   we´ve got an M320 with 4 power modules, a
single routing engine and 
> | > the following FPC´s:
> | > 
> | > 1 FPC type 1 (with 2xGigE)
> | > 1 FPC type 2 (with 3xOC-48)
> | > 1 FPC type 3 (with 2x10GE)
> | > 
> | > During a maintenance, we had to turn off only 2
power modules, but 
> | > unfortunately the whole box went down ...
> | > 
> | > According to docs, I was expecting the router to
stay up and running, 
> | > once this is not a fully "loaded"
router (without lots of FPC type 3, 
> | > for instance).
> | > 
> | > What went wrong ? ;)
> | > 
> | > Are there circumstances where I can turn off 2
power modules and M320 
> | > stay running?
> | 
> | It depends on type of power module (AC or DC) and
*which* modules you
> | remove. An M320 can operate with two out of four DC
power supplies (we
> | have verified this):
> | 
> | http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/hardwa
re/m320/fru-m320-dc-power-supply.pdf
> | 
> | and from what I can see, it can also operate with two
out of four AC
> | power supplies:
> | 
> | http://www.ju
niper.net/techpubs/hardware/m320/m320-ac-power-supply-fru/m3
20-ac-power-supply-fru.pdf
> | 
> | Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaugnethelp.no
> | 
> | _______________________________________________
> | juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsppuck.nether.net
> | 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
> | 
> 

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You might want to look at sections 2.12 and 17 of this
web-based  
training course:

h
ttp://www.juniper.net/training/elearning/m320.html

My understanding is that three of the four AC power supplies
must be  
on to power a fully populated router.  I don't think there's
specific  
information on how many components can be installed in a
chassis with  
only two AC power supplies.

--Stacy

On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Raniery Pontes wrote:

>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> The "problem" is we´re using AC power
supplies and documentation for
> these modules (thanks Steinar) is less detailed than
for DC power
> suplies. In my case it seems it doesn´t matter *which*
module is  
> turned
> off (differently from DC power suplies).
>
>  From the same doc:
> "A minimum of three AC power supplies provides
full power  
> redundancy.If
> one power supply fails or is removed, the remaining
power supplies
> instantly assume the entire electrical load. Two power
supplies  
> provide
> the minimum configuration with full power for as long
as the router is
> operational."
>
> The last sentence is really unclear to me. I still
don´t know in what
> FPC/PICs/hardware combinations I can turn off 2 power
supplies without
> turning off the router.
>
>
> Raniery
>
>
> James Cornman escreveu:
>> From what I recall, The m320 in DC mode, power
supply 1 is  
>> redundant for
>> supply 0, and 3 for supply 2. So assuming you have
a redundant power
>> supply powered for your maintenance, it should not
have caused an  
>> issue.
>> Meaning, if you have 0 and 2 powered, and powered
off 1 or 3, it  
>> should be
>> fine. The power layout on the M320 is a bit
confusing and i've gotten
>> caught with this same problem. Certain aspects of
the chassis are  
>> powered
>> by the 2 sets of power supplies. Meaning if you
turn off power  
>> supplies 2
>> and 3, your SIB/SFM modules could lose power, or
FPCs in slots 4  
>> thru 7 or
>> something could lose power. I'm not sure of the
exact specifics, the
>> document that was linked earlier can help.
>>
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Apr 2007, sthaugnethelp.no wrote:
>>
>> | >   we´ve got an M320 with 4 power modules, a
single routing  
>> engine and
>> | > the following FPC´s:
>> | >
>> | > 1 FPC type 1 (with 2xGigE)
>> | > 1 FPC type 2 (with 3xOC-48)
>> | > 1 FPC type 3 (with 2x10GE)
>> | >
>> | > During a maintenance, we had to turn off
only 2 power modules,  
>> but
>> | > unfortunately the whole box went down ...
>> | >
>> | > According to docs, I was expecting the
router to stay up and  
>> running,
>> | > once this is not a fully "loaded"
router (without lots of FPC  
>> type 3,
>> | > for instance).
>> | >
>> | > What went wrong ? ;)
>> | >
>> | > Are there circumstances where I can turn off
2 power modules  
>> and M320
>> | > stay running?
>> |
>> | It depends on type of power module (AC or DC) and
*which*  
>> modules you
>> | remove. An M320 can operate with two out of four
DC power  
>> supplies (we
>> | have verified this):
>> |
>> | http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/hardware/m320/fr
u-m320-dc-power- 
>> supply.pdf
>> |
>> | and from what I can see, it can also operate with
two out of  
>> four AC
>> | power supplies:
>> |
>> | http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/hardware/m320/m320-a
c-power- 
>> supply-fru/m320-ac-power-supply-fru.pdf
>> |
>> | Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaugnethelp.no
>> |
>> | _______________________________________________
>> | juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsppuck.nether.net
>> | 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
>> |
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsppuck.nether.net
> 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


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did you have any minimum redundancy configured under chassis
config?



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raniery Pontes" <ranieryrnp.br>
To: <juniper-nsppuck.nether.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: [j-nsp] Power failure - unexpected?



Hi everybody,

  we´ve got an M320 with 4 power modules, a single routing
engine and
the following FPC´s:

1 FPC type 1 (with 2xGigE)
1 FPC type 2 (with 3xOC-48)
1 FPC type 3 (with 2x10GE)

During a maintenance, we had to turn off only 2 power
modules, but
unfortunately the whole box went down ...

According to docs, I was expecting the router to stay up and
running,
once this is not a fully "loaded" router (without
lots of FPC type 3,
for instance).

What went wrong ? ;)

Are there circumstances where I can turn off 2 power modules
and M320
stay running?


Regards

-- 
Raniery Pontes
::::::::::::::::::::::
ranieryrnp.br
http://www.rnp.br/ceo/



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Hi,

Evan Williams escreveu:
> did you have any minimum redundancy configured under
chassis config?
> 

No, not at all. Is anything required in my situation?

Thanks

Raniery



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