KPoker

I was briefly thinking about making KPoker fit for KDE4. As
I have done LSkat 
I think another card game might be not so hard for me to do.
But I am not 
fully sure whether this is a good idea or not. A couple of
questions:

1. Is someone already working on KPoker? If so I need not
bother.

2. Is there any maintainer for KPoker? Is there someone who
would keep it 
alive after KDE 4.0 as it is absolutely impossible for me to
maintain it 
beyond the initial conversion. 

3. Is the game generally worth keeping? What's the opinion
on that? How is the 
AI playing? I could only do the QGV/SVG conversion but
probably not any 
gameplay or AI issues. I am not a poker player either so I
cannot judge this 
very well.

4. Are there other things missing or buggy except for the
graphics, that is, 
if I would make scalable QGV graphics would the game be
alright then?

Any opinions? 

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On Sunday 06 May 2007 11.07, Martin Heni wrote:
> I was briefly thinking about making KPoker fit for
KDE4. As I have done
> LSkat I think another card game might be not so hard
for me to do. But I am
> not fully sure whether this is a good idea or not. A
couple of questions:
>
> 1. Is someone already working on KPoker? If so I need
not bother.

No, I don't think so.  Actually, I'm pretty sure there is
not.

> 2. Is there any maintainer for KPoker? Is there someone
who would keep it
> alive after KDE 4.0 as it is absolutely impossible for
me to maintain it
> beyond the initial conversion.

There is no real maintainer, but I think I was the last one
to do any 
significant work on it.  If we can work together to make it
usable for 2.1, I 
can continue to fix bugs afterwards. Until the release of
2.0, I will have 
very little time for KPoker because a) I have to make KChart
in KOffice 
usable for KOffice 2.0 and b) I have taken on a mentorship
for a Google SoC 
code project in Marble.

After that I don't expect it to be so much problem.

> 3. Is the game generally worth keeping? What's the
opinion on that? How is
> the AI playing? I could only do the QGV/SVG conversion
but probably not any
> gameplay or AI issues. I am not a poker player either
so I cannot judge
> this very well.

Well, I have fixed the main engine so that it values hands
correctly and other 
similar stuff. I also made the code of the AI a bit saner,
but didn't touch 
the playing algorithms (much). The AI is generally sucky so
it's not a great 
challenge, but generally Poker AIs are still a topic for
research since it's 
not a game of perfect information.

Regarding KPoker at large, what's really bad is the current
GUI. It needs a 
major overhaul, and I see the need for the following:

 - The table. We need a completely new look, but I have
already gotten a 
promise from the kdegames graphics guys to get help after
the release of 2.0, 
so I feel confident that this will be fixed.

 - Network play.  If there is any game in kdegames that
really screams out for 
network play, it's kpoker. Especially since poker is not a 2
player game, but 
multiple players. A question here is: Does ggz have a poker
server?

 - More poker variations. Especially Texas Hold'em.

 - Maybe also improved AI, but although I am pretty familiar
with game AIs (I 
used to work a lot on GNU go, which once won the computer
olympiad), I don't 
have much experience with AIs like this.  I do think we can
improve the AI, 
but I don't expect it to get to expert play. And especially
I don't think we 
can make it bluff convincingly. 

> 4. Are there other things missing or buggy except for
the graphics, that
> is, if I would make scalable QGV graphics would the
game be alright then?

Well, see above.  I think the graphics needs a complete
overhaul, and also the 
game flow.  Right now the bidding sucks, and there is no
good way to see how 
much you have bet.

	-Inge

> Any opinions?

Always 

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> kde-games-develkde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel

-- 
Inge Wallin               | Thus spake the master
programmer:               |
                          |      "After three days
without programming,     |
ingelysator.liu.se       |       life becomes
meaningless."                |
                          | Geoffrey James: The Tao of
Programming.         |
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On Sunday 06 May 2007 12.11, Inge Wallin wrote:
> On Sunday 06 May 2007 11.07, Martin Heni wrote:
> > I was briefly thinking about making KPoker fit for
KDE4. As I have done
> > LSkat I think another card game might be not so
hard for me to do. But I
> > am not fully sure whether this is a good idea or
not. A couple of
> > questions:
> >
> > 1. Is someone already working on KPoker? If so I
need not bother.
>
> No, I don't think so.  Actually, I'm pretty sure there
is not.
>
> > 2. Is there any maintainer for KPoker? Is there
someone who would keep it
> > alive after KDE 4.0 as it is absolutely impossible
for me to maintain it
> > beyond the initial conversion.
>
> There is no real maintainer, but I think I was the last
one to do any
> significant work on it.  If we can work together to
make it usable for 2.1,

This should be 4.1, of course!  Oops!

> I can continue to fix bugs afterwards. Until the
release of 2.0, I will

...and this is KOffice 2.0

> have very little time for KPoker because a) I have to
make KChart in
> KOffice usable for KOffice 2.0 and b) I have taken on a
mentorship for a
> Google SoC code project in Marble.
>
> After that I don't expect it to be so much problem.
>
> > 3. Is the game generally worth keeping? What's the
opinion on that? How
> > is the AI playing? I could only do the QGV/SVG
conversion but probably
> > not any gameplay or AI issues. I am not a poker
player either so I cannot
> > judge this very well.
>
> Well, I have fixed the main engine so that it values
hands correctly and
> other similar stuff. I also made the code of the AI a
bit saner, but didn't
> touch the playing algorithms (much). The AI is
generally sucky so it's not
> a great challenge, but generally Poker AIs are still a
topic for research
> since it's not a game of perfect information.
>
> Regarding KPoker at large, what's really bad is the
current GUI. It needs a
> major overhaul, and I see the need for the following:
>
>  - The table. We need a completely new look, but I have
already gotten a
> promise from the kdegames graphics guys to get help
after the release of
> 2.0, so I feel confident that this will be fixed.

Argh!  4.0!

Confusingly yours!

	-Inge

>  - Network play.  If there is any game in kdegames that
really screams out
> for network play, it's kpoker. Especially since poker
is not a 2 player
> game, but multiple players. A question here is: Does
ggz have a poker
> server?
>
>  - More poker variations. Especially Texas Hold'em.
>
>  - Maybe also improved AI, but although I am pretty
familiar with game AIs
> (I used to work a lot on GNU go, which once won the
computer olympiad), I
> don't have much experience with AIs like this.  I do
think we can improve
> the AI, but I don't expect it to get to expert play.
And especially I don't
> think we can make it bluff convincingly. 
>
> > 4. Are there other things missing or buggy except
for the graphics, that
> > is, if I would make scalable QGV graphics would
the game be alright then?
>
> Well, see above.  I think the graphics needs a complete
overhaul, and also
> the game flow.  Right now the bidding sucks, and there
is no good way to
> see how much you have bet.
>
> 	-Inge
>
> > Any opinions?
>
> Always 
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde-games-devel mailing list
> > kde-games-develkde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel

-- 
Inge Wallin               | Thus spake the master
programmer:               |
                          |      "After three days
without programming,     |
ingelysator.liu.se       |       life becomes
meaningless."                |
                          | Geoffrey James: The Tao of
Programming.         |
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On Sunday 06 May 2007 11:07, Martin Heni wrote:
> I was briefly thinking about making KPoker fit for
KDE4. As I have done
> LSkat I think another card game might be not so hard
for me to do. But I am
> not fully sure whether this is a good idea or not. A
couple of questions:
>
> 1. Is someone already working on KPoker? If so I need
not bother.

I am. However only on my local disk and still in a KDE3
version:
I have (mostly) completed a KGame port, that finally enables
the 
implementation of a clean computer player + gives network
games for free.

However since I don't have much time these days, I don't
think I am going to 
start a KDE4 port somewhen soon, so feel free to do so.

> 2. Is there any maintainer for KPoker? Is there someone
who would keep it
> alive after KDE 4.0 as it is absolutely impossible for
me to maintain it
> beyond the initial conversion.
>
> 3. Is the game generally worth keeping? What's the
opinion on that? How is
> the AI playing? I could only do the QGV/SVG conversion
but probably not any
> gameplay or AI issues. I am not a poker player either
so I cannot judge
> this very well.

The current AI sucks ans is not worth working on. That would
be a waste of 
time: the design is terribly flawed and just plain ugly.

> 4. Are there other things missing or buggy except for
the graphics, that
> is, if I would make scalable QGV graphics would the
game be alright then?
>
> Any opinions?

CU
Andi
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So what I got from (the bit confusing posts  ) is
that a feasible way would 
be:

1. Inge does AI and later maintainer
2. I do the Graphics cards port to Qt4/SVG/QGV
3. We keep the game at the moment local player against AI
and Andy puts his 
KDE network stuff in later on.
4. We aim for KDE 4.1 as there is no chance to fix all what
is needed to KDE 
4.0

>  - More poker variations. Especially Texas Hold'em.
Very good point. Especially this needs to be implemented.
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On Sunday 06 May 2007 12:51, Martin Heni wrote:
> So what I got from (the bit confusing posts  ) is
that a feasible way
> would be:
>
> 1. Inge does AI and later maintainer
> 2. I do the Graphics cards port to Qt4/SVG/QGV
> 3. We keep the game at the moment local player against
AI and Andy puts his
> KDE network stuff in later on.
> 4. We aim for KDE 4.1 as there is no chance to fix all
what is needed to
> KDE 4.0

If we aim for 4.1 anyway, then I have the following
proposal:
I put my current state in playground
-> anyone who wants to do the graphics port can do so.
however a kde4 port is 
required first then.
-> AI would be a lot easier there, too

CU
Andi
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 On Sunday 06 May 2007 13.01, Andreas Beckermann wrote:
> On Sunday 06 May 2007 12:51, Martin Heni wrote:
> > So what I got from (the bit confusing posts  ) is
that a feasible way
> > would be:
> >
> > 1. Inge does AI and later maintainer
> > 2. I do the Graphics cards port to Qt4/SVG/QGV
> > 3. We keep the game at the moment local player
against AI and Andy puts
> > his KDE network stuff in later on.
> > 4. We aim for KDE 4.1 as there is no chance to fix
all what is needed to
> > KDE 4.0
>
> If we aim for 4.1 anyway, then I have the following
proposal:
> I put my current state in playground
> -> anyone who wants to do the graphics port can do
so. however a kde4 port
> is required first then.
> -> AI would be a lot easier there, too

Sounds good.

	-Inge

> CU
> Andi
> _______________________________________________
> kde-games-devel mailing list
> kde-games-develkde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel

-- 
Inge Wallin               | Thus spake the master
programmer:               |
                          |      "After three days
without programming,     |
ingelysator.liu.se       |       life becomes
meaningless."                |
                          | Geoffrey James: The Tao of
Programming.         |
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On Sunday 06 May 2007 14:21, Inge Wallin wrote:
>  On Sunday 06 May 2007 13.01, Andreas Beckermann
wrote:
> > On Sunday 06 May 2007 12:51, Martin Heni wrote:
> > > So what I got from (the bit confusing posts
 )
is that a feasible
> > > way would be:
> > >
> > > 1. Inge does AI and later maintainer
> > > 2. I do the Graphics cards port to
Qt4/SVG/QGV
> > > 3. We keep the game at the moment local
player against AI and Andy puts
> > > his KDE network stuff in later on.
> > > 4. We aim for KDE 4.1 as there is no chance
to fix all what is needed
> > > to KDE 4.0
> >
> > If we aim for 4.1 anyway, then I have the
following proposal:
> > I put my current state in playground
> > -> anyone who wants to do the graphics port can
do so. however a kde4
> > port is required first then.
> > -> AI would be a lot easier there, too
>
> Sounds good.
>
> 	-Inge

Ok, I have committed to playground and have also started a
KDE4 port.
I had hoped to delay this until I have completed the
gameengine, but I guess 
at some point I have to start it 

atm the game does not work (because of the KDE4 port), but
that should be 
fixed within the next few days I hope.
Also this is a straight forward port only: I tried to shut
the compiler up, 
not to find the best solution to certain things.

In particular KPokerConfig is probably not designed for KDE4
at all.

If anyone feels like starting to work on the GUI: feel free
to do so!

CU
Andi
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