KScoreDialog usability related question

Hi fellows!

While we are discussing usability related things (I mean
Paolo's thread), let 
me share some of my thoughts about KScoreDialog and our
highscore system in 
general.

Well, yestertday I suddenly found what confuses me in
KScoreDialog (before 
that I had only slight "feeling" that something is
wrong, yesterday it formed 
into writable sentence in my mind )

It's all about popups. When I (as a game player) finish a
level and I suddenly 
see some dialog (KScoreDialog) appear, it confuses me.
Moreover, I need to 
enter my name, and press OK, or just hit Cancel. What if I
just want to 
continue playing, without taking all these actions?

In KAtomic this gets even worse - each level has it's own
highscore and I see 
highscore dialog popping up after every level. Rude. The
option is not to 
show this dialog after every level, but then the other
question arises - how 
and when should the game ask the player for name to put in
the Higscore 
table?

This may not be a problem of KScoreDialog itself, in the end
it is the 
particular game which implements its showing. But I'm
writing this because I 
think we should agree on some general rules of KScoreDialog
usage.

Personally I'd like it not to be shown automatically, but
rather there should 
be some kind of "You have a new highscore" message
somewhere in the game. And 
if the user wants to see his/her highscore he should do it
explicitly by 
invoking "View Highscores" action. But the
question about when and how he/she 
should enter the name remains.

Perhaps someone has better idea(s)?
Or my thoughts just sound wrong to you? 
Well, perhaps it is only me, who is slightly annoyed by
KScoreDialog 
popups .

What do usablility people think about this? Would be
interesting to know 

Cheers,
Dmitry.
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On Jun 12, 2007, at 18:51, Dmitry Suzdalev wrote:

> Hi fellows!
>
> While we are discussing usability related things (I
mean Paolo's  
> thread), let
> me share some of my thoughts about KScoreDialog and our
highscore  
> system in
> general.

Hello.

I also want to write about KScoreDialog in katomic, as it is
the only  
KDE4 game I play maniacally.

Disclaimer: I work on Mac. YMMV. I play katomic and don't
know other  
games.

Generally — I like KScoreDialog. I don't mind it popping up
after I  
have finished a level. Players are used to highscore lists
since late  
70's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroids_%28computer_gam
e%29 ).

What confuses me in katomic is that after I finish a level a
yes/no  
dialog pops up asking me if I want to advance to another
level (see  
GameWidget::gameOver()). It breaks the workflow. Recording
highscore  
belongs to just finished level and advancing to another one
should be  
considered after all the actions on the current level are
finished.

Besides I don't know what happens when I click „No” on this 

questionYesNo dialog.

Here's KScoreDialog screenshot of almost 30 levels
completed:
http://hell.o
rg.pl/~yess/highscore.tiff

The list layout is broken.
The vertical widget on the left is way too long (without
means to  
scroll it).
Tab titles are useless as the level numbers have been cut.
I don't understand what is to be cancelled in KSCoreDialog.

Sorry for somewhat harsh tone. I see that things improve
constantly —  
for example the score numbers are no longer directly cast to
strings,  
as they were about one week ago,.

I have some improvement suggestions (There's >0
probability that I  
can produce patches for it, but it's not high)

Replace vertical tabs with (scrollable) list.
Remove word „Highscores” from the titles of highscore
groups. It's  
redundant.

-- 
tadeusz
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On wto, 2007-06-12 at 20:51 +0400, Dmitry Suzdalev wrote:
> It's all about popups. When I (as a game player) finish
a level and I suddenly 
> see some dialog (KScoreDialog) appear, it confuses me.
Moreover, I need to 
> enter my name, and press OK, or just hit Cancel. What
if I just want to 
> continue playing, without taking all these actions?

I have an another idea for those games that display
"Game Over" message
in game field. The message should display player's score,
give
information whether it belogs to the highest and provide a
button to
submit player's data to KScoreDialog.

Regards
  Tomasz Boczkowski

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On Tuesday 12 June 2007, Dmitry Suzdalev wrote:
> Personally I'd like it not to be shown automatically,
but rather there
> should be some kind of "You have a new
highscore" message somewhere in the
> game. And if the user wants to see his/her highscore he
should do it
> explicitly by invoking "View Highscores"
action. But the question about
> when and how he/she should enter the name remains.

using the same widget that dolphin or amarok uses to show
such information at 
the bottom of the window would be perfect, imho. it's
visible, obvious, 
non-intrusive and goes away eventually on its own.

as for asking for the name, i'd say just default to the
user's login (that's 
trivial to get via:

KUser user;
QString name = user.fullName();

if (name.isEmpty()) {
     name = user.loginName();
}

voila, a default name. offer a menu item to change the name
(or via the high 
score dialog itself? you could ask at the start of the game
as Burkhard 
suggests, but that seems like an annoyance for something
that the vast 
majority of people would just click through as it would have
the right info 
anyways and the rest wouldn't likely care about ... 

the only thing that the user probably really needs to
confirm / interact with 
is whether or not to publish their high scores on a
centralized service (if 
supported by the game at all)

> Well, perhaps it is only me, who is slightly annoyed by
KScoreDialog
> popups .

nope =) you are bang on.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1
A7F1 DB43

Full time KDE developer sponsored by Trolltech (http://www.trolltech.com
)

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On Tuesday 12 June 2007 21:49, Tadeusz Andrzej Kadlubowski
wrote:
> I also want to write about KScoreDialog in katomic, as
it is the only
> KDE4 game I play maniacally.
Nice to hear ;)

> Generally — I like KScoreDialog. I don't mind it
popping up after I
> have finished a level. Players are used to highscore
lists since late
> 70's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroids_%28computer_gam
e%29 ).
Yes, I know this. I am not against higscore lists in general
- I'm arguing 
against sudden popups of score dialog 

> What confuses me in katomic is that after I finish a
level a yes/no
> dialog pops up asking me if I want to advance to
another level (see
> GameWidget::gameOver()). It breaks the workflow.
Recording highscore
> belongs to just finished level and advancing to another
one should be
> considered after all the actions on the current level
are finished.
>
> Besides I don't know what happens when I click „No” on
this
> questionYesNo dialog.
Well, my fault. Let me explain you why I added this message
box.
Firstly I think that it *is not* the right thing, when
developer *explains* 
something to the user . Ideally
the game should be understandable as it 
is. So the simple existence of yours "I dont' know what
happens" indicates a 
wrong design to me .

But perhaps you (and maybe someone else) will have an idea
on what is the 
right thing to do, after my explanation.

So. This message box is there so the users can use one
simple feature of 
katomic: save the solution (i.e. whole history of your
moves) in a file.
After you completed a level you *may* want to save it and
for example mail the 
solution to a friend.
If you hit "no" - you can do two things: save the
level or play with "Undo 
all, undo, redo, redo all" actions to see each step you
took while solving 
this level.
If you hit "yes" - the moves history of previous
completed level is completely 
forgotten, so you can't save it any more - if you return
back to that level 
you'll have to start it from scratch.

So this message box exists only to give the player an
opportunity to save 
*finished* level.
I agree, that it shouldn't be there. I'll think what can I
do about it. If you 
have any ideas, please share.

> Here's KScoreDialog screenshot of almost 30 levels
completed:
> http://hell.o
rg.pl/~yess/highscore.tiff
>
> The list layout is broken.
It surely is. We should look into it. Thanks for
screenshot.

> I don't understand what is to be cancelled in
KSCoreDialog.
Hmm... Perhaps it is about not entering your name... But
you're right. 
Misleading.

> Sorry for somewhat harsh tone. I see that things
improve constantly —
> for example the score numbers are no longer directly
cast to strings,
> as they were about one week ago,.
Heh .
Yes, i fixed it recently. I'd do it earlier, but I thought
that it is 
kdelibs' bug and waited for it to be fixed, without even
trying to look where 
it comes from .
And your tone is just ok for me. There are problems, you
report them. Thanks.

Cheers,
Dmitry.
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Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> using the same widget that dolphin or amarok uses to
show such information at 
> the bottom of the window would be perfect, imho. it's
visible, obvious, 
> non-intrusive and goes away eventually on its own.

Are you talking about the information-pane-type-thingy? I do
not know 
its name (anyone?), but I also think it is a good option to
communicate 
back to the player in a standard way, in situations where
the status bar 
does not cut it.

> as for asking for the name, i'd say just default to the
user's login (that's 
> trivial to get via:
> 
> KUser user;
> QString name = user.fullName();
> 
> if (name.isEmpty()) {
>      name = user.loginName();
> }
> 
> voila, a default name. offer a menu item to change the
name (or via the high 
> score dialog itself? 

Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but asking for the name
is optional 
in a KScoreDialog, isn't it?

Regards,
Mauricio Piacentini
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On Tuesday 12 June 2007 21:54, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> using the same widget that dolphin or amarok uses to
show such information
> at the bottom of the window would be perfect, imho.
it's visible, obvious,
> non-intrusive and goes away eventually on its own.
Wow. I really like the idea. IIRC this widget is private to
amarok, i.e. it 
doesn't exist in kdelibs, yes? Btw, haven't seen it in
dolphin.
Wait. You mean the one in the status bar? Or the one which
reports an errors 
in amarok (the yellow one)? 

Thinking a bit more about it - maybe we can write some
QGraphicsItem for 
showing highscores which behaves like that amarok thingie?
Ah, and KGameCanvas variant should be written too.

>
> as for asking for the name, i'd say just default to the
user's login
> (that's trivial to get via:
>
> KUser user;
> QString name = user.fullName();
>
> if (name.isEmpty()) {
>      name = user.loginName();
> }
>
> voila, a default name.
yup, that's a nice solution. I think I saw this in
kbattleship 

> nope =) you are bang on.
Hehe. Not sure what "bang on" means exactly, but I
think I got you right 

Cheers,
Dmitry.
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On Tuesday 12 June 2007 21:15, Burkhard Lehner wrote:
> A) The player could be asked for his name (and the
permission to record his
> highscores) on game start. 
Well, as Aaron said, it can be not very pleasing to see some
unwanted dialog 
about some highscores, when the person just want to jump in
(that really cool 
new version I heard so much of) the game 

> B) The highscore popup could have the checkbox "Do
not show this dialog
> again". After the first time you enter your name,
and check the box, you
> will automatically be added to the highscores in the
future. 
I thought about this too. this may be an option...

cheers,
Dmitry
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On Tuesday 12 June 2007 22:15, Mauricio Piacentini wrote:
> Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but asking for the
name is optional
> in a KScoreDialog, isn't it?
Ah, yes.
I got it in katomic for historical reasons ;).

If the name isn't asked, what it defaults to? Username?
Nothing? How to change 
it?

I should look in the sources 

Dmitrees,
Chitry =)
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