Re: Exporting mails from kmail

--------- Original Message --------
From: For people using KDE on Linux with related
questions/problems
<kde-linuxkde.org>
To: kde-linuxkde.org <kde-linuxkde.org>
Subject: Re: [kde-linux] Exporting mails from kmail
Date: 05/07/07 08:58

>
> On Wednesday 04 July 2007, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> &gt; Kmail stores its mail in
~/.kde/share/apps/kmail/mail. Don't ask me
why
> &gt; it's hidden, nor why kmail silently overrides
any attempt to put it
> &gt; elsewhere, but that's one reason why I want to
change e-mail client.
>
> If that's the best reason you have for changing I
suggest you are
> on the wrong track.  Its not at all uncommon for kde
applications
> to store stuff in the &quot;hidden&quot;
subdirectory structure.

I require my mail directories, among others, to live on a
separate
partition, which I mount on whichever system I've booted.
Kmail will not
allow me this flexibility - evidently it knows better than I
do.

I also want a program that doesn't screw up the thread
structure when
someone uses a Web mail program to write their replies,
instead of an e-mail
client. The current version of kmail is woefully bad in this
respect.

> Thunderbird does not have half the features or
functionality of Kmail.

I'm prompted to try it again by a review in the latest Linux
Format, where
it's shown as having far more features, not fewer.

> Hidden is not an apt description.  Its hidden only in
the sense
> of keeping it out of your way.

Exactly so. This is the sort of arrogance that M$ put into
all their
products, not to mention Gnome.

> &gt; When I start Thunderbird it offers to import
mail, but only of one
type:
> &gt; Communicator 4.0. I assume that will not do.
>
> Kmail can import a gazillion different types of mail. 
If you are
> going to a package that can only deal with one type,
does that
> not tell you something?

No, it suggests to me that some parts are missing, or that I
haven't found
the right way to do what I need. I looked on the Web site
but couldn't see
anything, which is why I asked here.

--
Rgds
Peter.


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Peter Humphrey wrote:

>> > When I start Thunderbird it offers to
import mail, but only of one
> type:
>> > Communicator 4.0. I assume that will not
do.
>>
>> Kmail can import a gazillion different types of
mail.  If you are
>> going to a package that can only deal with one
type, does that
>> not tell you something?
> 
> No, it suggests to me that some parts are missing, or
that I haven't found
> the right way to do what I need. I looked on the Web
site but couldn't see
> anything, which is why I asked here.

How many other mail clients can import mail from KMail? What
that 
suggests to me is the KMail is intended to be an email black
hole - you 
can put your mail is but you can't get it out - just another
form of 
vendor lock-in, to me.


David
gnomehawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
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On Thursday 05 July 2007 20:16:32 david wrote:

> How many other mail clients can import mail from KMail?
What that
> suggests to me is the KMail is intended to be an email
black hole - you
> can put your mail is but you can't get it out - just
another form of
> vendor lock-in, to me.

I'm no expert, but it looks as if KMail uses maildir to
me... am I wrong? 
Maildir and mbox is the defacto standards for mails as far
as I know.

(I havn't followed this discussion. But for all that is good
and furry, there 
are enough mailclients out there that one of them should
make you happy  )

-- 
kind regards, Esben

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On Thursday 05 July 2007 19:16:32 david wrote:
>
> How many other mail clients can import mail from KMail?
What that
> suggests to me is the KMail is intended to be an email
black hole - you
> can put your mail is but you can't get it out - just
another form of
> vendor lock-in, to me.
>
There are just two main standards for mail message formats,
as far as I know - 
mbox and maildir.  Kmail supports both.  What's more, both
are plain text, so 
readable in a thousand apps.  That's the strangest lock-in
I've seen.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302 (http://counter.li.org/)

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On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 12:24:01PM +0100, Peter Humphrey
wrote:

> > If that's the best reason you have for changing I
suggest you are
> > on the wrong track.  Its not at all uncommon for
kde applications
> > to store stuff in the "hidden"
subdirectory structure.
> 
> I require my mail directories, among others, to live on
a separate
> partition, which I mount on whichever system I've
booted. Kmail will not
> allow me this flexibility - evidently it knows better
than I do.

I've followed this whith half an ear ... 
but may I suggest IMAP here?
This is the classical useage scenario for it, after all...
There are, depending on your preferences (you seem to
prefer
maildir,'t seems) even simple solutions which let you 

	a) store your email "in the IMAP server" while at
the same time
	   being able to access the mails in the
directory-structure of
	   the respective host (uw-imapd for mbox, maybe s.th.
like
	   courier for maildir..)

	b) make them accessible w. the email-client of your choice
from
	   everywhere in the network which is allowed to access
143/tcp
	   on your IMAP-server host (which in "my"
network are many more
	   places than are allowed to do mounts)
	   anything from mutt, .. to thunderbird & kmail speaks
IMAP

	c) will let you store emails in one place as a principle,
	   without the need to move/migrate them when changing
clients.
	   IMAP is meant as a "leave-on-server" solution,
which makes
	   multi-homing of work/mail hosts easier

As a side-note: when I first read this thread I already
thought
"kmail speaks IMAP, set up an IMAP server and push them
there, then
you can import them with any client", but thought it to
maybe be too
much of an effort for migrating between mail-clients.
But regarding your usage-scenario, I'd do it.

		HTH,
		 jens
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On Thursday 05 July 2007, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I require my mail directories, among others, to live on
a separate
> partition, which I mount on whichever system I've
booted. Kmail will not
> allow me this flexibility - evidently it knows better
than I do.

Actually it should do.
What distribution are you using (assuming you use binary
packages)?
Which version of KMail/KDE is it?

> I also want a program that doesn't screw up the thread
structure when
> someone uses a Web mail program to write their replies,
instead of an
> e-mail client. The current version of kmail is woefully
bad in this
> respect.

This is strange. Can you check whether the web mail software
keeps the proper 
references intact. Some clients unfortunately do not support
mail threading 
and destroy the reply references. Though I never heard of a
web mail 
interface doing so.

Cheers,
Kevin

-- 
Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer
KDE user support, developer mentoring

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Jens Stroebel wrote:

> As a side-note: when I first read this thread I already
thought
> "kmail speaks IMAP, set up an IMAP server and push
them there, then
> you can import them with any client", but thought
it to maybe be too
> much of an effort for migrating between mail-clients.
> But regarding your usage-scenario, I'd do it.

I've done that, and I'm no mail geek. Of course, that was
Mercury/32, 
David Harris' excellent mail server for Win32 systems, which
might be 
easier to set up than other mail servers.

You could even set up your IMAP server on your own computer,
and just 
keep your mail there. Then you could get it using any old
mail client 
you felt like using or even just trying out ...

-- 
David
gnomehawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
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On Friday 06 July 2007 00:28:32 Kevin Krammer wrote:
> On Thursday 05 July 2007, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > I require my mail directories, among others, to
live on a separate
> > partition, which I mount on whichever system I've
booted. Kmail will
> > not allow me this flexibility - evidently it knows
better than I do.
>
> Actually it should do.
> What distribution are you using (assuming you use
binary packages)?
> Which version of KMail/KDE is it?

This is gentoo ~amd64.* Now that I look at the date stamps
on the 
directories I kept when I switched to kmail, I see that it
was over a year 
ago. So kmail may well have improved since then - apologies
if I've 
impugned it unjustly. I do remember though that, at the
time, when I set a 
link to ~/common/Mail.kmail (where I wanted to keep my mail
directories), 
next time I started kmail it had been overwritten with an
empty directory.

> > I also want a program that doesn't screw up the
thread structure when
> > someone uses a Web mail program to write their
replies, instead of an
> > e-mail client. The current version of kmail is
woefully bad in this
> > respect.
>
> This is strange. Can you check whether the web mail
software keeps the
> proper references intact. Some clients unfortunately do
not support mail
> threading and destroy the reply references. Though I
never heard of a web
> mail interface doing so.

People seem to use all manner of Web e-mail clients on the
list I'm thinking 
of, so I don't think it's feasible for me to check
exhaustively. Some 
people's e-mails are shown alone, not in a thread at all,
which I assume is 
an example of the destruction of references that you
mention. That's not 
too serious a problem; it's just a nuisance. Others' e-mails
do appear in a 
thread, but out of place - in many cases well before the
ones they're 
replying to. Still other e-mails appear in what seems to be
the wrong 
thread altogether.

Incidentally, if I did manage to point kmail to another
place, would all the 
mail folder structure be preserved as well, and the filters
etc?

* Running equery to report what USE flags kmail was compiled
with gives the 
following result:

$ equery u kmail
[ Searching for packages matching kmail... ]
[ Colour Code : set unset ]
[ Legend : Left column  (U) - USE flags from make.conf      
       ]
[        : Right column (I) - USE flags packages was
installed with ]
[ Found these USE variables for kde-base/kmail-3.5.7 ]
 U I
 + + arts           : Adds support for aRts: the KDE sound
daemon
 + + crypt          : Add support for encryption -- using
mcrypt or gpg 
where applicable
 - - debug          : Enable extra debug codepaths, like
asserts and extra 
output. If you want to get meaningful backtraces see 
http:
//www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/backtraces.xml .
 - - elibc_FreeBSD  : <unknown>
 + + kdeenablefinal : EXPERIMENTAL: KDE ebuilds will use the
enable-final 
flag, yielding compilation speedups at the cost of heavy mem
usage and 
potentially causing problems. We strongly discourage setting
this.
 - - xinerama       : Add support for the xinerama X11
extension, which 
allows you to stretch your display across multiple monitors

I've just noticed the caution about kdeenablefinal, which I
think wasn't 
there when I declared it in /etc/make.conf many months ago.
Looks like I 
should try removing it. Meanwhile I'm going to try moving my
kmail 
installation to a new system I'm building.

-- 
Rgds
Peter Humphrey
Linux Counter 5290, Aug 93
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On Friday 06 July 2007 10:01:09 david wrote:
> Jens Stroebel wrote:
> > As a side-note: when I first read this thread I
already thought
> > "kmail speaks IMAP, set up an IMAP server and
push them there, then
> > you can import them with any client", but
thought it to maybe be too
> > much of an effort for migrating between
mail-clients.
> > But regarding your usage-scenario, I'd do it.
>
> I've done that, and I'm no mail geek. Of course, that
was Mercury/32,
> David Harris' excellent mail server for Win32 systems,
which might be
> easier to set up than other mail servers.
>
> You could even set up your IMAP server on your own
computer, and just
> keep your mail there. Then you could get it using any
old mail client
> you felt like using or even just trying out ...

I wouldn't recommend running the imap server on your own
computer, although 
it's quite possible.  The mail clients sometimes do weird
things in that 
situation.  If you do want to set up imap, on whichever
computer, dovecot is 
an excellent server, and there is excellent documentation on
their wiki.

You can, of course, use any mail client you wish, once
that's set up - and you 
don't have to stick to one if you don't want to.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302 (http://counter.li.org/)

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