The name of this project is KDevelop

Hi,

I just want to say a few things. First of all the name of
this project 
is KDevelop. The name of the KDevelop Platform is (by
definition) 
KDevelop Platform. I will be happy if in future we will have
projects 
based on our platform, like eclipse has a lot of projects
based on the 
eclipse Platform.

If you don't like the name KDevelop Platform for the
KDevelop Platform 
then we have a problem. It is sad but the problem has a very
simple 
solution. We fork it. The interesting part is that I'm
forking it, so I 
will probably have to use yet another name  We can say
that the 
KDevelop Platform(at least the name) is pretty much dead.
Isn't it 
funny?

I started KDevelop 4 (together with Harald) in Ukrain, and I
was very 
excited about it. I'm sorry I wasn't active in the last few
months, but 
a lot of code there is based on my original work. I love
that code and 
I love KDevelop. I don't want people to use different names
(like 
koncrete?) for the KDevelop Platform.

In a few weeks I will be an *active* Open Source developer
(again). 
It's just too bad I disagree to much with you guys  I will
take a 
look at Alexander branch in the next few weeks. I hope he
(and the 
other developers) will understand the value of the name
KDevelop, but 
if nothing will change (e.g. KDevelop public api using the
Koncrete 
namespace, or our library with 202 files, ...) then I will
start the 
fork. Feel free to send me an email if you are interested or
if you 
want to join this new(possible?) fork.


ciao robe


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Am Sonntag, 21. Januar 2007 17:55 schrieb Jakob Petsovits:
> My opinion is that the code is what's important. You've
got lot's of ideas
> how to make KDevelop better, and I believe your
contributions to either the
> fork or the re-renamed KDevelop Platform are good for
everyone.
>
> I'm very opposed to the idea of splitting our work
forces over a naming
> issue. I've got the impression that changing Koncrete
back to KDevelop is
> far more important to you than keeping the name is for
Matt or Alexander.
> ("It's just a fucking name, right?") Working
on KDevelop 4 _together_ will
> get us further than having a fork.
>
> Thus, I suggest to rename Koncrete back to KDevelop
Platform, namespace the
> lib/ classes with KDevPlatform:: and make one KDevelop
4 that rocks,
> instead of two different KDevelops that are merely
sufficient.
>
> The code is more important than the name.
>
> Thanks,
>   Jakob

This is 100% my opinion. 

"namespace KDevPlatform = Koncrete" or
"namespace Koncrete = KDevPlatform" 
would also solve the problem... 

greetings, David

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> Thus, I suggest to rename Koncrete back to KDevelop
Platform, namespace the
> lib/ classes with KDevPlatform:: and make one KDevelop
4 that rocks,
> instead of two different KDevelops that are merely
sufficient.


Ok, there're several propositions so far:
1) what we have now
namespace: Koncrete 
module in trunk/KDE: koncrete

2) Jakob's
namespace: KDevPlatform
module in trunk/KDE: ? (most likely kdevplatform, right?)

3) Roberto's
namespace: none, just KDev prefix
module in trunk: ?

Other ideas were:
kdevbase and kdevelopbase.

What do people think?

==========
My own preference is of course Koncrete but I will be fine
with KDevPlatform
as well. I won't fight for the name. 

Nevertheless, until there is still "fork" question
outstanding, I 
strongly oppose any rename and prefer Koncrete to be used.

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Am Sonntag, 21. Januar 2007 18:37 schrieb Alexander Dymo:
> > Thus, I suggest to rename Koncrete back to
KDevelop Platform, namespace
> > the lib/ classes with KDevPlatform:: and make one
KDevelop 4 that rocks,
> > instead of two different KDevelops that are merely
sufficient.
>
> Ok, there're several propositions so far:
> 1) what we have now
> namespace: Koncrete
> module in trunk/KDE: koncrete
>
> 2) Jakob's
> namespace: KDevPlatform
> module in trunk/KDE: ? (most likely kdevplatform,
right?)
>
> 3) Roberto's
> namespace: none, just KDev prefix
> module in trunk: ?
>
> Other ideas were:
> kdevbase and kdevelopbase.
>
> What do people think?

I think "Koncrete" is a bit confusing,
KDevPlatform is more logical, but it 
looks a bit too long.

What about a namespace called "KDev"?
KDev::PluginController is great to read and easy to write.

Module kdevplatform.

My second vote would be KDevPlatform. It's just more
logical. 

Koncrete would probably be acceptable too once you get used
to it, though a 
message on the list that says "The new name of the
kdevelop-platform is 
Koncrete, it will contain ... and be used by ..." would
have helped getting 
used to it.

greetings, David

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First of all, I'm really sorry if my reply will sound
harsh.
But after today's discussion at irc I don't think I can be
as polite as usual.

On Sunday 21 January 2007 18:31, Roberto Raggi wrote:
> I just want to say a few things. First of all the name
of this project
> is KDevelop.
We know that.

> The name of the KDevelop Platform is (by definition) 
> KDevelop Platform. I will be happy if in future we will
have projects
> based on our platform, like eclipse has a lot of
projects based on the
> eclipse Platform.
> If you don't like the name KDevelop Platform for the
KDevelop Platform
> then we have a problem. It is sad but the problem has a
very simple
> solution. We fork it. The interesting part is that I'm
forking it, so I
> will probably have to use yet another name  We can say
that the
> KDevelop Platform(at least the name) is pretty much
dead. Isn't it
> funny?

Roberto, first of all I have to remind you that what you're
saying here
can be summarized in one sentence:
"If you won't go my way, I'll go my way alone
anyway".
I don't believe this is how free (and not only) sofware
development work.
KDevelop project has a team and if you have ideas on the
future
of the project you need to raise the discussion. And you
know,
saying "I'll go my way anyway" doesn't help in
discussions.

I supported you this week when you were talking about the 
quality of our interfaces and actually put effort to
discuss
the problems and started to solve them. But I will not
support you today.

> In a few weeks I will be an *active* Open Source
developer (again).
> It's just too bad I disagree to much with you guys  I will
take a
> look at Alexander branch in the next few weeks. I hope
he (and the
> other developers) will understand the value of the name
KDevelop, but
> if nothing will change (e.g. KDevelop public api using
the Koncrete
> namespace, or our library with 202 files, ...) then I
will start the
> fork.

I think if you just explained us why we were wrong with the
name "Koncrete"
and stated your proposals instead of stating that as an
ultimatum,
we'd came to an agreement sooner than we can do now.

Also if you're not happy with the code, you'd better try to
help me
in my rework. Actually I'm not going to remove any of that
code,
I rather try to make it more structured and easy to
understand/use.

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On Sunday, 21. January 2007 18:11, Roberto Raggi wrote:
> Do you really need to use a namespace? I mean it's that
a doctor asked
> us to use namespaces otherwise we are going to die. I
have nothing
> against namespaces, but in C++ they are just not that
useful.

Personally I find them to look somehow cleaner, but in
practice it's all the 
same to me. If it was for me, we could just use
KDevSomething and I'd be
just as fine.

ciao jakob

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Hi Alex, 

On Sunday 21 January 2007 18:37, Alexander Dymo wrote:
...
> My own preference is of course Koncrete but I will be
fine with
> KDevPlatform as well. I won't fight for the name.

My 2 cents: as a native german speaker "Koncrete"
doesn't make a lot of sense 
to me. Is it concrete as in stone (Beton) or concrete as in
actual 
(konkret) ?

Beside that, a fork due to the name also doesn't make much
sense to me. 
Splitting the few developers among two branches makes even
less sense to me.

Bye
Alex
-- 
Work: alexander.neundorf AT jenoptik.com - http://www.jenoptik-los.de

Home: neundorf AT kde.org                - http://www.kde.org
      alex AT neundorf.net               - http://www.neundorf.net

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Hi Alexander,

Quoting Alexander Dymo <dymoukrpost.ua>:

> First of all, I'm really sorry if my reply will sound
harsh.
> But after today's discussion at irc I don't think I can
be
> as polite as usual.
Don't worry. In the 99% of the cases I'm very polite too.
But today is 
different 

>
> On Sunday 21 January 2007 18:31, Roberto Raggi wrote:
> "If you won't go my way, I'll go my way alone
anyway".
> I don't believe this is how free (and not only) sofware
development work.
> KDevelop project has a team and if you have ideas on
the future
> of the project you need to raise the discussion. And
you know,
> saying "I'll go my way anyway" doesn't help
in discussions.

It doesn't look like it was a democratic decision. You
decided to 
rename it and you pretty much did it (without a vote). For
instance, 
search for koncrete in kdevelop-devel
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kdevelop-de
vel&w=2&r=1&s=koncrete&q=b

You are using koncrete in the source code, so it is not a
codename like 
gideon, it is the name of *your* new project. BTW Yes, you
are right! I 
don't like the name. I don't like the current code base. So
I won't 
join the project. There is nothing wrong in it.

I'm sorry Alexander, I'm sure that this sound stupid to you
and to the 
other people reading this mailing list, but for me it is
important. At 
this point you can call it whatever you want without sending
an email 
to kdevelop-devel (like you already did it).

ciao robe




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> > The code is more important than the name.

> "namespace KDevPlatform = Koncrete" or
"namespace Koncrete = KDevPlatform"
> would also solve the problem... 

I didn't track where Koncrete came from, but now it looks to
me like the name 
sucks. IMHO of course, but it lost all of its
self-descriptiveness. And it 
just doesn't "sound right", to me. My $.02

Cheers, Kuba

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On Sunday, 21. January 2007 18:37, Alexander Dymo wrote:
> Ok, there're several propositions so far:
> 1) what we have now
> namespace: Koncrete
> module in trunk/KDE: koncrete
>
> 2) Jakob's
> namespace: KDevPlatform
> module in trunk/KDE: ? (most likely kdevplatform,
right?)

right.

> 3) Roberto's
> namespace: none, just KDev prefix
> module in trunk: ?
>
> Other ideas were:
> kdevbase and kdevelopbase.

For those who don't read the plain kdevelop list, we've got
another name 
proposal there:
"Origin"
I find it quite cool, although I'm not sure if it's better
than keeping 
("going back to") KDevPlatform.

As lists.kde.org currently seems to be down which means I
can't find the link, 
here's the original message.


----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: kdevelop sdk name
Date: Monday, 29. January 2007 14:55
From: Andrew Sutton <asuttoncs.kent.edu>
To: kdevelopkdevelop.org

greetings,

i don't generally contribute much to kde, but for some
reason, i'm
subscribed to a bunch of kde mailing lists - i guess it's
some kind
of weird techno-voyeurism.

anyways, i read about the project name issue on the weekly
commit
digest, and had a suggestion. in the (somewhat new)
tradition of
naming api's with names that appear to be tangentially
related or
descriptive of the project - at least without thinking about
them,
i'd propose the name "origin". there are a couple
of reasons:

first "origin" is a synonym for "source"
- which as developers, we
should all be familiar with 

second, all kde development originates from source code
(duh).
describing an api as "origin" has very specific
connotations -
specifically, that it provides facilities for everybody
developing
for kde - in one fashion or another.

third, it's short, sweet, and to the point. i mean, it's
only 6
letters - so is "plasma".

hopefully, i'm not johnny-come-lately or beating a dead
horse with
the suggestion, but i liked it. i hope you guys do to.

andrew sutton
asuttoncs.kent.edu


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