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List Info
Thread: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we want/need?
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| RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-25 14:20:56 |
I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to give to the
Oxygen folk, so
that KDevelop4 can have system-provided icons. Anyway, a few
comments...
For debugging controls, could VCR icons be used for run,
break, stop,
restart?
Should more autotools-related menus have icons? (distclean,
configure,
run autotools, etc.) What about 'make messages', 'make doc',
etc.?
Is there anything else (that isn't already in the
system-wide icons)
that needs/wants icons that I am forgetting?
This will go up at trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/docs. I'm
attaching
the current draft if anyone would like to comment. I'll
commit in a
maybe a day or two if no one comments.
--
Matthew
"I like to think of it as 'unplanned dissonance'"
-- A fellow chorister
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kate: tab-width 3;
This is a list of icons that are needed by KDevelop that are
applicable to at
least IDE's in general (some have even wider application
than that, e.g. the
sync-to-current-folder icon which is also used by at least
Kate).
I don't know how many are 'on the list' already, but I
didn't see the compile
group, so I'm guessing most of these are 'new'.
NOTE: items with '?' are lower priority (things that don't
currently have icons
and may not need them). IMO 'sync to folder' and 'find in
files' should have
highest priority since these are most likely to have wider
use (also the sync
icon in KDE 3.5 is terrible ).
- build icons
- 'build'
builds the project (like 'make')
ideas: window with fat down arrow at the lower center or
lower right
- 'build active'
builds the 'active target' ('$ make <target>')
? 'compile'
compiles a single file
ideas: like 'build' but with a file instead of a window
- 'clean'
deletes built files ('$ make clean')
ideas: broom, broom over window/files
? 'distclean'
deletes maintainer-generated files, like 'configure' ('$
make distclean')
ideas: broom over a gear/wrench
? 'configure'
ideas: like 'build' but with a gear/wrench also
? 'run autotools'
ideas: like 'configure'?
? 'install'
? 'install as root'
? 'make messages'
builds files for i18n
ideas: like 'build' but also with pen/feather/stylus
- debug icons
- 'run', 'break', 'stop'
...listed for completion (will use VCR 'play', 'pause',
'stop' resp.)
- 'restart'
ideas: use VCR-style restart; play after a bar? what is
VCR restart? use
VCR 'back' (reverse play pointing to bar)?
- 'run to cursor'
continues execution until execution reaches the line where
the cursor is
ideas: VCR-style forward (play pointing to bar)?
- 'step'
executes one line of code, then stops
- 'step instruction'
executes exactly one machine instruction, then stops
- 'step out'
completes execution of the current function, stopping when
the function
returns
- 'step over'
- 'set next'
changes the instruction-pointer to the line of code under
the cursor
- 'breakpoint'
indicates a line where the debugger will halt execution
ideas: stop sign, red circle with 'X'
- misc icons
- 'sync to folder'
used in places where the user selects a path to set the
path to the
'working directory' (usually the location of the active
document)
ideas: folder with an arrow pointing into it, e.g.
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-artists&m=1168
89123829485&q=p3
- 'find in files'
ideas: folder with magnifying glass, folder with
binnoculars
- 'new project'
ideas: window with 'new' sparkle
- 'open project'
ideas: window with small folder overlayed
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-25 15:45:05 |
On 25.01.07 14:20:56, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to give to the
Oxygen folk, so that
> KDevelop4 can have system-provided icons. Anyway, a few
comments...
>
> For debugging controls, could VCR icons be used for
run, break, stop, restart?
>
> Should more autotools-related menus have icons?
(distclean, configure, run
> autotools, etc.) What about 'make messages', 'make
doc', etc.?
>
> Is there anything else (that isn't already in the
system-wide icons) that
> needs/wants icons that I am forgetting?
I think this is much too early. We don't even have a shell
around an
editor at the moment and we certainly don't know how our
project-management, file-management or any other Ui's will
look like.
> This will go up at
trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/docs. I'm attaching the
> current draft if anyone would like to comment. I'll
commit in a maybe a day or
> two if no one comments.
Please don't our needs may change when we finally decided on
how
KDevelop4 will work (or mattr finally gets around to write a
wiki page
with his ideas), else we just duplicate work for the oxygen
people.
Andreas
--
You have literary talent that you should take pains to
develop.
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-25 17:01:07 |
Did you look at the attached document? With the exception of
autotools-related stuff (for which I am making a 'don't do
this yet!'
note right now ), every
single item is IMO something that *any* IDE
would have. Maybe I am less visionary, but I don't see the
actions
'build', 'clean', 'run program', 'stop program', etc going
away in
KDev4. In fact, except for the aforementioned autotools
stuff, every
single action I listed is shared by at least MSVC6; probably
by most
IDE's out there. I was specifically trying to think of
things whose use
is specific to "IDE's in general" (if even that),
not only KDevelop.
Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> On 25.01.07 14:20:56, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>> I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to give to
the Oxygen folk, so that
>> KDevelop4 can have system-provided icons. Anyway, a
few comments...
>>
>> For debugging controls, could VCR icons be used for
run, break, stop, restart?
Any thoughts here? One point is that the need for VCR-like
icons is not
going to go away, it makes sense to share as much as
possible with e.g.
music players (and maybe uiserver? ). Also
we are talking very simple
icons that should be very easy to make, and are good
candidates for
re-purposing.
>> Should more autotools-related menus have icons?
(distclean, configure, run
>> autotools, etc.) What about 'make messages', 'make
doc', etc.?
>>
>> Is there anything else (that isn't already in the
system-wide icons) that
>> needs/wants icons that I am forgetting?
>
> I think this is much too early. We don't even have a
shell around an
> editor at the moment and we certainly don't know how
our
> project-management, file-management or any other Ui's
will look like.
But will we still have projects? Will we still want to
create new
projects, and open existing projects?
You do raise an excellent point, however, that our expanded
needs are
not yet known. Therefore I will not plan on adding anything
beyond the
core features I came up with so far (besides, one point to
getting it in
svn is so someone /else/ can do that ).
If there are specific items you are concerned about, I would
appreciate
more detailed discussion, but at the very least I want my
'sync to dir'
icon request going up. I'm sure you remember the discussion
on that a
while back, and as you know this one is certainly not used
only by
KDevelop. (And IMNSHO we *really* need a better one .)
--
Matthew
"I like to think of it as 'unplanned dissonance'"
-- A fellow chorister
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-25 17:31:24 |
On 25.01.07 17:01:07, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> Did you look at the attached document?
Sorry, I don't have the time today. I'll try to do that
during the
weekend. I just wanted to drop a note, as you were saying
you commit
that, possibly producing extra unneeded work.
> With the exception of
> autotools-related stuff (for which I am making a 'don't
do this yet!'
> note right now ), every
single item is IMO something that *any* IDE
> would have. Maybe I am less visionary, but I don't see
the actions
> 'build', 'clean', 'run program', 'stop program', etc
going away in
> KDev4.
No, the question is more if we're going to need icons for
each and every
action we will have. (And yes we need an icon for each of
the ones
mentioned).
> IDE's out there. I was specifically trying to think of
things whose use
> is specific to "IDE's in general" (if even
that), not only KDevelop.
Ok, then. I guess I was a bit hasty
> Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> > On 25.01.07 14:20:56, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >> I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to
give to the Oxygen folk, so that
> >> KDevelop4 can have system-provided icons.
Anyway, a few comments...
> >>
> >> For debugging controls, could VCR icons be
used for run, break, stop, restart?
>
> Any thoughts here? One point is that the need for
VCR-like icons is not
Hmm, what is VCR?
> If there are specific items you are concerned about, I
would appreciate
> more detailed discussion, but at the very least I want
my 'sync to dir'
> icon request going up. I'm sure you remember the
discussion on that a
> while back, and as you know this one is certainly not
used only by
> KDevelop. (And IMNSHO we *really* need a better one
.)
Hehe, yeah I do remember Please go
ahead on that one. I don't have
Kate4 around to see if it still has a file-tree-view or
not.
Andreas
--
Give your very best today. Heaven knows it's little
enough.
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-25 18:41:39 |
On 25.01.07 17:54:42, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> > On 25.01.07 17:01:07, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >> Did you look at the attached document?
> >
> > Sorry, I don't have the time today. I'll try to do
that during the
> > weekend. I just wanted to drop a note, as you were
saying you commit
> > that, possibly producing extra unneeded work.
>
> No problem! Personally I think your fears are unfounded
I hope so.
> >> note right now ), every
single item is IMO something that *any* IDE
> >> would have. Maybe I am less visionary, but I
don't see the actions
> >> 'build', 'clean', 'run program', 'stop
program', etc going away in
> >> KDev4.
> >
> > No, the question is more if we're going to need
icons for each and every
> > action we will have. (And yes we need an icon for
each of the ones
> > mentioned).
>
> Right. Well, there's a major chunk of my list right
there.
Hehe...
> >>>> For debugging controls, could VCR
icons be used for run, break, stop, restart?
> >> Any thoughts here? One point is that the need
for VCR-like icons is not
> >
> > Hmm, what is VCR?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/VCR <-- this?
Aah, I was too lazy to look it up (and yes I do know the
abbreviation,
but its too late for me to make a connection between
debugger and VCR
> i.e. would it make sense to borrow 'play', 'pause',
'stop', etc. icons
> otherwise intended for media player programs for
KDevelop?
Well, play and stop for running/stopping an app could be
fine. But then
debug should have a separate icon and thus I don't think
pause would be
such a good idea - i.e. some mediaplayer icons work for
executing the
app, some work for debugging it.
Andreas
--
You have a will that can be influenced by all with whom you
come in contact.
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-26 10:51:22 |
On 26.01.07 10:23:04, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> > On 25.01.07 17:54:42, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >> i.e. would it make sense to borrow 'play',
'pause', 'stop', etc. icons
> >> otherwise intended for media player programs
for KDevelop?
> >
> > Well, play and stop for running/stopping an app
could be fine. But then
> > debug should have a separate icon and thus I don't
think pause would be
> > such a good idea - i.e. some mediaplayer icons
work for executing the
> > app, some work for debugging it.
>
> Actually, my thought was that /all/ of those would be
for debugging;
Ok, but only the 3 of those make some sense to use as
debugging icons.
The fast forward, rewind or the next/prev icons don't make
much sense in
a debugging session. I mean sure one could assign Step to
next or fast
forward, but I don't think that if you see such an icon
you'd connect it
to "Step" in your head.
So, I can agree that those 3 icons do make sense in
debugging toolbar.
Andreas
--
Chicken Little was right.
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-30 04:18:34 |
On Thursday 25 January 2007 23:20, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to give to the
Oxygen folk, so
> that KDevelop4 can have system-provided icons. Anyway,
a few comments...
>
> For debugging controls, could VCR icons be used for
run, break, stop,
> restart?
I'm not sure about restart -- the ideas in the document
don't look intuitive.
We also need icons for deleting one breakpoint and all
breakpoints. I'm not sure
if there's some stock icons already.
- Volodya
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-30 06:00:37 |
On Tuesday, 30. January 2007 11:18, Vladimir Prus wrote:
> On Thursday 25 January 2007 23:20, Matthew Woehlke
wrote:
> > I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to give
to the Oxygen folk, so
> > that KDevelop4 can have system-provided icons.
Anyway, a few comments...
> >
> > For debugging controls, could VCR icons be used
for run, break, stop,
> > restart?
>
> I'm not sure about restart -- the ideas in the document
don't look
> intuitive.
It may not be a completely appropriate analogy, but I guess
looking at audio
players or VCRs could be a good idea. So...
What Would Amarok Do? (TM)
Amarok (1.4.4) has got four main controls in its player
control toolbar:
- Next Track / Previous Track behave in a simple way, are
always enabled,
and only serve one purpose, namely skipping back and
forth.
- The Play button is always enabled as well, but when a
track is played,
it changes to the Pause button. Which means that only one
of them is
displayed at a time.
- The Stop button stays the Stop button, but is only enabled
when a track
is playing.
There are players which don't combine the Play/Pause
functionality in one
single button (I can't currently think of one, but I
remember using them),
and those are using the Play button for restarting the
current track.
That in mind, I can think of two possible approaches for
KDevelop:
- Start Debugging changes to Pause when the program is
running.
Restart is dropped completely, the user is required to
first select Stop,
then Start Debugging.
or
- Start Debugging keeps its icon, but is renamed to Restart
when the program
is running. Pause gets its own steady place in the
toolbar, and is only
enabled when the program is running.
I would prefer the first one - it kills a bit space for an
additional toolbar
icon, and I'd generally consider it the cleaner approach.
Is there a special need for keeping the Restart capability,
or specifically to
keep it in such a prominent place as the toolbar? Does
Restart have any major
advantages to Stop/Start, or does it just save a single
click?
How do debuggers of other IDEs do it?
brainfood,
Jakob
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

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2007-01-30 06:25:20 |
On Tuesday 30 January 2007 15:00, Jakob Petsovits wrote:
> On Tuesday, 30. January 2007 11:18, Vladimir Prus
wrote:
> > On Thursday 25 January 2007 23:20, Matthew Woehlke
wrote:
> > > I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to
give to the Oxygen folk, so
> > > that KDevelop4 can have system-provided
icons. Anyway, a few comments...
> > >
> > > For debugging controls, could VCR icons be
used for run, break, stop,
> > > restart?
> >
> > I'm not sure about restart -- the ideas in the
document don't look
> > intuitive.
>
> It may not be a completely appropriate analogy, but I
guess looking at audio
> players or VCRs could be a good idea. So...
>
> What Would Amarok Do? (TM)
>
> Amarok (1.4.4) has got four main controls in its player
control toolbar:
> - Next Track / Previous Track behave in a simple way,
are always enabled,
> and only serve one purpose, namely skipping back and
forth.
> - The Play button is always enabled as well, but when a
track is played,
> it changes to the Pause button. Which means that only
one of them is
> displayed at a time.
> - The Stop button stays the Stop button, but is only
enabled when a track
> is playing.
>
> There are players which don't combine the Play/Pause
functionality in one
> single button (I can't currently think of one, but I
remember using them),
> and those are using the Play button for restarting the
current track.
>
> That in mind, I can think of two possible approaches
for KDevelop:
>
> - Start Debugging changes to Pause when the program is
running.
> Restart is dropped completely, the user is required
to first select Stop,
> then Start Debugging.
This won't work, as Stop kills gdb and Restart does not,
so:
1. You don't need to reload gdb from scratch
2. There's no swtich from debugger "perspective"
to code
editing "perspective" and back.
> or
> - Start Debugging keeps its icon, but is renamed to
Restart when the program
> is running. Pause gets its own steady place in the
toolbar, and is only
> enabled when the program is running.
It won't work either. Now "Start" is renamed to
"Resume" when debugger
starts. And "Resume" is not the same as
"Restart" -- "Resume" continues
execution from the current position and "Restart"
starts application from
the start.
- Volodya
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| Re: RFC: KDevelop4 icons, what do we
want/need? |

|
2007-01-30 06:25:20 |
On Tuesday 30 January 2007 15:00, Jakob Petsovits wrote:
> On Tuesday, 30. January 2007 11:18, Vladimir Prus
wrote:
> > On Thursday 25 January 2007 23:20, Matthew Woehlke
wrote:
> > > I am working on a list of IDE-like icons to
give to the Oxygen folk, so
> > > that KDevelop4 can have system-provided
icons. Anyway, a few comments...
> > >
> > > For debugging controls, could VCR icons be
used for run, break, stop,
> > > restart?
> >
> > I'm not sure about restart -- the ideas in the
document don't look
> > intuitive.
>
> It may not be a completely appropriate analogy, but I
guess looking at audio
> players or VCRs could be a good idea. So...
>
> What Would Amarok Do? (TM)
>
> Amarok (1.4.4) has got four main controls in its player
control toolbar:
> - Next Track / Previous Track behave in a simple way,
are always enabled,
> and only serve one purpose, namely skipping back and
forth.
> - The Play button is always enabled as well, but when a
track is played,
> it changes to the Pause button. Which means that only
one of them is
> displayed at a time.
> - The Stop button stays the Stop button, but is only
enabled when a track
> is playing.
>
> There are players which don't combine the Play/Pause
functionality in one
> single button (I can't currently think of one, but I
remember using them),
> and those are using the Play button for restarting the
current track.
>
> That in mind, I can think of two possible approaches
for KDevelop:
>
> - Start Debugging changes to Pause when the program is
running.
> Restart is dropped completely, the user is required
to first select Stop,
> then Start Debugging.
This won't work, as Stop kills gdb and Restart does not,
so:
1. You don't need to reload gdb from scratch
2. There's no swtich from debugger "perspective"
to code
editing "perspective" and back.
> or
> - Start Debugging keeps its icon, but is renamed to
Restart when the program
> is running. Pause gets its own steady place in the
toolbar, and is only
> enabled when the program is running.
It won't work either. Now "Start" is renamed to
"Resume" when debugger
starts. And "Resume" is not the same as
"Restart" -- "Resume" continues
execution from the current position and "Restart"
starts application from
the start.
- Volodya
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