2 Questions for Teamwork

Hi,

as it was just "resurrected" I gave it a little
test (two kdevelops on
the same computer) and got two questions:

a) Do you plan an overhaul of the GUI? IMHO its unusable,
cluttered and
missing various labels (not to mention the broken popup
dialogs)

b) I didn't look at the code, but the plugin states that it
creates a
workspace-thing, why is that needed? We tried to avoid
having a
workspace in KDevelop4 to place the projects in. Or is this
more like a
workspace per project where stuff that is being worked on
using teamwork
stored? 

Andreas

-- 
You will forget that you ever knew me.

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Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2007 19:01:11 schrieb Andreas Pakulat:
> Hi,
>
> as it was just "resurrected" I gave it a
little test (two kdevelops on
> the same computer) and got two questions:
>
> a) Do you plan an overhaul of the GUI? IMHO its
unusable, cluttered and
> missing various labels (not to mention the broken popup
dialogs)
Yes of course it needs an overhaul. It mainly needs a little
work on the 
ui-files, one or two labels filled, and some stuff should
probably go out of 
the tab into some configuration-dialog or sub-dialogs, but
those didn't exist 
when it was created. I don't know whether there is a usable

configuration-system now. 

Then it needs some support from kdevplatform to signalize
that a new message 
has arrived.

I don't know though why it's unusable though.

> b) I didn't look at the code, but the plugin states
that it creates a
> workspace-thing, why is that needed? We tried to avoid
having a
> workspace in KDevelop4 to place the projects in. Or is
this more like a
> workspace per project where stuff that is being worked
on using teamwork
> stored?
>
> Andreas

The plugin was designed when kdevelop was a one-project
application, it relies 
on having one central folder where to save patches,
message-logs, etc., and 
from where to relatively search for the files of
reference-messages and 
similar.

When partially porting it so it works with multi-project, I
renamed the 
project-folder to workspace-folder because workspace is what
fits the name 
best. A space where you "teamwork". It could
contain multiple projects, so 
you can teamwork on all of them. We can think about a way to
make it work 
with all open projects, by using some kind of a
"virtual workspace" or 
similar.

greetings, David


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Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2007 19:01:11 schrieb Andreas Pakulat:
> Hi,
>
> as it was just "resurrected" I gave it a
little test (two kdevelops on
> the same computer) and got two questions:
>
> a) Do you plan an overhaul of the GUI? IMHO its
unusable, cluttered and
> missing various labels (not to mention the broken popup
dialogs)
>
> b) I didn't look at the code, but the plugin states
that it creates a
> workspace-thing, why is that needed? We tried to avoid
having a
> workspace in KDevelop4 to place the projects in. Or is
this more like a
> workspace per project where stuff that is being worked
on using teamwork
> stored?
>
> Andreas

Right now, teamwork it is simply started on the first
project you open, and 
the teamwork-workspace is set to that project's directory.


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Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2007 19:28:01 schrieb David Nolden:
> Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2007 19:01:11 schrieb Andreas
Pakulat:
> > Hi,
> >
> > as it was just "resurrected" I gave it a
little test (two kdevelops on
> > the same computer) and got two questions:
> >
> > a) Do you plan an overhaul of the GUI? IMHO its
unusable, cluttered and
> > missing various labels (not to mention the broken
popup dialogs)
>
> Yes of course it needs an overhaul. It mainly needs a
little work on the
> ui-files, one or two labels filled, and some stuff
should probably go out
> of the tab into some configuration-dialog or
sub-dialogs, but those didn't
> exist when it was created. I don't know whether there
is a usable
> configuration-system now.

When I remember right, it also needs some work on the
user-interface of the 
little management tree-views, especially the management of
the 
file-collaboration. I couldn't get double-clicking to work
reliably there, 
but I was hoping anyway that the file-management there could
be moved to some 
more general widget(remember working file baskets). We'll
see whether there 
will be something usable for this purpose.


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On 04.07.07 19:28:01, David Nolden wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2007 19:01:11 schrieb Andreas
Pakulat:
> > Hi,
> >
> > as it was just "resurrected" I gave it a
little test (two kdevelops on
> > the same computer) and got two questions:
> >
> > a) Do you plan an overhaul of the GUI? IMHO its
unusable, cluttered and
> > missing various labels (not to mention the broken
popup dialogs)
> Yes of course it needs an overhaul. It mainly needs a
little work on the 
> ui-files, one or two labels filled, and some stuff
should probably go out of 
> the tab into some configuration-dialog or sub-dialogs,
but those didn't exist 
> when it was created. I don't know whether there is a
usable 
> configuration-system now. 
> 
> Then it needs some support from kdevplatform to
signalize that a new message 
> has arrived.
> 
> I don't know though why it's unusable though.

I didn't mean unusable as in "one can't do anything
with it", unusable
means: Not easy to use, hard to understand. When the Ui is
refactored
you should have a look at the HIG wiki and follow the rule's
they set up
for user interfaces.
http://wiki.openusability.org/guidelines/index.php/M
ain_Page

> > b) I didn't look at the code, but the plugin
states that it creates a
> > workspace-thing, why is that needed? We tried to
avoid having a
> > workspace in KDevelop4 to place the projects in.
Or is this more like a
> > workspace per project where stuff that is being
worked on using teamwork
> > stored?
> >
> > Andreas
> 
> The plugin was designed when kdevelop was a one-project
application,

Then it needs a redesign ;)

> When partially porting it so it works with
multi-project, I renamed the 
> project-folder to workspace-folder because workspace is
what fits the name 
> best. A space where you "teamwork". It could
contain multiple projects, so 
> you can teamwork on all of them. We can think about a
way to make it work 
> with all open projects, by using some kind of a
"virtual workspace" or 
> similar.

Why can't you use project/.kdev4 on a per-project base?
There was an
agreement that needing a workspace is not a good idea,
because people
are bound to have their projects inside the workspace to use
them. I
find this the most problematic part of Eclipse' project
handling. 
This leads developers to store settings in the workspace,
which in turn
leads to problems when having to move to a new workspace,
which in turn
is needed on each minor version upgrade for eclipse.

Andreas

-- 
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Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2007 20:25:55 schrieb Andreas Pakulat:
> Why can't you use project/.kdev4 on a per-project base?
There was an
> agreement that needing a workspace is not a good idea,
because people
> are bound to have their projects inside the workspace
to use them. I
> find this the most problematic part of Eclipse' project
handling.
> This leads developers to store settings in the
workspace, which in turn
> leads to problems when having to move to a new
workspace, which in turn
> is needed on each minor version upgrade for eclipse.
>
> Andreas

You're right, I really don't like the workspace-thing in
eclipse.

But when it's about teamwork, there are some unclear things:
In which 
project-folder to store a patch/file that you receive? In
which 
project-folder to store the message-history of chatting with
a specific user? 
Where to start when resolving relative file-names?  etc.
etc.

Until those questions are answered and the result
implemented, we can allow 
the user to choose a folder that he wants to teamwork on(the

teamwork-workspace folder). That could either be a
project-folder(as it in 
the beginning was thought to be, the user could right-click
the project and 
say "Start teamwork") or for example the directory
on disk that contains 
kdelibs, kdevplatform, kdevelop, etc. so you could teamwork
across all of 
them at a time.

We can think about making that more elegant once the more
basic 
integration-problems are solved.

It's not like the user has to configure a workspace, but
instead he will have 
an implicit teamwork-workspace that is used when he says
"teamwork on this 
project".

greetings, David


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