KDevelop UI

Hi guys,

I remember some discussion about the KDevelop UI. I think
the goal  
was to use a mixture of kdev3-ideal and eclipse UI elements.
I  
compiled KDevelop today(I'm mentoring a SOC project, so I'm
tracking  
the repository) and the UI doesn't really look like eclipse
and for  
sure it is not using ideal. There is this huge combo box
(that  
doesn't look great on mac), an iPod-like file browser(on my
20''  
monitor!? wtf  and a few
docked widgets. I know that kdev4 is  
working in progress, but the UI looks ... well, very
interesting   
do you have a mockup or something with the final UI for
KDevelop 4? I  
mean writing an ideal-like UI with Qt is  500-1000 loc and
if you  
don't want to use ideal you can write the main GUI using a
[QK] 
MainWindow and some dock widgets, maybe 50 loc!?

ciao robe


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On Wednesday 18 July 2007 08:12:36 Roberto Raggi wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I remember some discussion about the KDevelop UI. I
think the goal
> was to use a mixture of kdev3-ideal and eclipse UI
elements. I
> compiled KDevelop today(I'm mentoring a SOC project, so
I'm tracking
> the repository) and the UI doesn't really look like
eclipse and for
> sure it is not using ideal. There is this huge combo
box (that
> doesn't look great on mac), an iPod-like file
browser(on my 20''
> monitor!? wtf  and a few
docked widgets. I know that kdev4 is
> working in progress, but the UI looks ... well, very
interesting 
> do you have a mockup or something with the final UI for
KDevelop 4? I
> mean writing an ideal-like UI with Qt is  500-1000 loc
and if you
> don't want to use ideal you can write the main GUI
using a [QK]
> MainWindow and some dock widgets, maybe 50 loc!?
>
> ciao robe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Roberto look here:
http://www.kdevelop.org/mediawiki/index.php/KDevelop_4_
UI
http://www.kdevelop.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sublime_UI

http://www.kdevelop.org/mediawi
ki/index.php/Sublime_User_Interface_Modus_operandi

Mathieu
-- 
The individual choice of garnishment of a burger can be an
important
point to the consumer in this day when individualism is an
increasingly
important thing to people.
		-- Donald N. Smith, president of Burger King

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On 7/18/07, Roberto Raggi <robertokdevelop.org> wrote:
> I remember some discussion about the KDevelop UI. I
think the goal
> was to use a mixture of kdev3-ideal and eclipse UI
elements. I
> compiled KDevelop today(I'm mentoring a SOC project, so
I'm tracking
> the repository) and the UI doesn't really look like
eclipse and for
> sure it is not using ideal. There is this huge combo
box (that
> doesn't look great on mac), an iPod-like file
browser(on my 20''
> monitor!? wtf  and a few
docked widgets. I know that kdev4 is
> working in progress, but the UI looks ... well, very
interesting 

Hehe, that's because nobody worked on it since January ;)

> do you have a mockup or something with the final UI for
KDevelop 4? I
> mean writing an ideal-like UI with Qt is  500-1000 loc
and if you
> don't want to use ideal you can write the main GUI
using a [QK]
> MainWindow and some dock widgets, maybe 50 loc!?

Umm, we already using KMainWindow with this Qt4-style tab
grouping of docks...

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Hi Alexander,

Il giorno 18/lug/07, alle ore 19:25, Alexander Dymo ha
scritto:

> Hehe, that's because nobody worked on it since January
;)

too bad :( well, I really think that ideal is still the best
UI for  
IDEs and I would like to see an improved ideal mode in
kdev4. You can  
find in attachement my little implementation of ideal. It's
a 3-4  
hours hack, so don't expect too much, but the button bars
are pretty  
good and (of course) the code is trivial, about 500 loc(and
I hope  
with not too many bugs). There are a few things to do(like
resizing  
the dock widgets), but I think the remaing stuff is trivial.
I hope  
you guys have some time to help me finishing it and maybe
integrate  
it in the kdev sublime UI.

ciao robe

PS: Please, note that this is just a prototype 



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2007/7/18, Roberto Raggi <robertokdevelop.org>:
>
> Hi Alexander,
>
> Il giorno 18/lug/07, alle ore 19:25, Alexander Dymo ha
scritto:
>
> > Hehe, that's because nobody worked on it since
January ;)
>
> too bad :( well, I really think that ideal is still the
best UI for
> IDEs and I would like to see an improved ideal mode in
kdev4. You can
> find in attachement my little implementation of ideal.
It's a 3-4
> hours hack, so don't expect too much, but the button
bars are pretty
> good and (of course) the code is trivial, about 500
loc(and I hope
> with not too many bugs). There are a few things to
do(like resizing
> the dock widgets), but I think the remaing stuff is
trivial. I hope
> you guys have some time to help me finishing it and
maybe integrate
> it in the kdev sublime UI.

Wow. I like it. Qt4's dockwidget is inconvenient because it
is hard
to acquire large texteditor area. That is, it is hard to
hide side dockwidget
when I don't want to see it. I should click X button 5 times
if there are
5 tabbed widgets  on right/bottom side. Then I should invoke
context menu,
click checkbox to resurrect the hidden docwidget.

Ideal is ideal as its name suggests.

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On 19.07.07 11:50:34, dukju ahn wrote:
> 2007/7/18, Roberto Raggi <robertokdevelop.org>:
> >
> > Hi Alexander,
> >
> > Il giorno 18/lug/07, alle ore 19:25, Alexander
Dymo ha scritto:
> >
> > > Hehe, that's because nobody worked on it
since January ;)
> >
> > too bad :( well, I really think that ideal is
still the best UI for
> > IDEs and I would like to see an improved ideal
mode in kdev4. You can
> > find in attachement my little implementation of
ideal. It's a 3-4
> > hours hack, so don't expect too much, but the
button bars are pretty
> > good and (of course) the code is trivial, about
500 loc(and I hope
> > with not too many bugs). There are a few things to
do(like resizing
> > the dock widgets), but I think the remaing stuff
is trivial. I hope
> > you guys have some time to help me finishing it
and maybe integrate
> > it in the kdev sublime UI.
> 
> Wow. I like it. Qt4's dockwidget is inconvenient
because it is hard
> to acquire large texteditor area. That is, it is hard
to hide side dockwidget
> when I don't want to see it. I should click X button 5
times if there are
> 5 tabbed widgets  on right/bottom side. Then I should
invoke context menu,
> click checkbox to resurrect the hidden docwidget.
> 
> Ideal is ideal as its name suggests.

I agree that we should have the buttons to show/hide
dockwidgets, but
there's much todo with that example - apart from resizing
there's also
the problem of automatic closing of the dockwidget when you
click into
the editor area. I _hate_ that for certain toolviews.

And the question is wether all that is doable with Qt's
dockwidget and
mainwindow without falling into the kmdi-trap.

Andreas

-- 
Living your life is a task so difficult, it has never been
attempted before.

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Il giorno 19/lug/07, alle ore 19:34, Andreas Pakulat ha
scritto:
> I agree that we should have the buttons to show/hide
dockwidgets, but
> there's much todo with that example - apart from
resizing there's also
> the problem of automatic closing of the dockwidget when
you click into
> the editor area. I _hate_ that for certain toolviews.

heheh.. it's just a 500 loc little prototype  but I'm
sure it  
won't take too much time to make it ready for real apps.
I'll do some  
more work on it later today. My current plan is:
   - more action based API. I think I'll start to use  
QToolButton::defaultAction()
   - drag & drop (maybe with some nice effects. You
know, like the  
one I did for Qt Designer)
   - docking
   - animations
   - transparent views
   - eclipse-like views

>
> And the question is wether all that is doable with Qt's
dockwidget and
> mainwindow without falling into the kmdi-trap.

I don't think this is a problem, Ideal doesn't need dock
widgets. I  
used dock widgets because I'm too lazy to use QStyle to draw
the  
decorations.

btw as I said before I will do some more prototyping today.
Just let  
me know what you would like to see in the final version. The
license  
is MIT.

ciao robe




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On 19.07.07 20:08:24, Roberto Raggi wrote:
> Il giorno 19/lug/07, alle ore 19:34, Andreas Pakulat ha
scritto:
> > I agree that we should have the buttons to
show/hide dockwidgets, but
> > there's much todo with that example - apart from
resizing there's also
> > the problem of automatic closing of the dockwidget
when you click into
> > the editor area. I _hate_ that for certain
toolviews.
> 
> heheh.. it's just a 500 loc little prototype  but I'm
sure it  
> won't take too much time to make it ready for real
apps. I'll do some  
> more work on it later today. My current plan is:

I have to admit that I didn't look into the code, I just
started it and
played with it ;)

>    - more action based API. I think I'll start to use 

> QToolButton::defaultAction()
>    - drag & drop (maybe with some nice effects. You
know, like the  
> one I did for Qt Designer)

You mean the standard Qt dockwidget-effects when dragging
dockwidgets?
Or what else?

>    - docking
>    - animations
>    - transparent views

Wouldn't that be better done by the windowmanager with
things like
composite? I mean it should be much faster than things done
with plain
Qt...

>    - eclipse-like views

What do you mean with that? I mean Eclipse views are not
that different
from plain Qt dockwidgets, except that you can have
fast-views which you
already implemented in the example (i.e. float until focus
is lost then
hide), or did I miss something in eclipse?

> > And the question is wether all that is doable with
Qt's dockwidget and
> > mainwindow without falling into the kmdi-trap.
> 
> I don't think this is a problem, Ideal doesn't need
dock widgets. I  
> used dock widgets because I'm too lazy to use QStyle to
draw the  
> decorations

Well, I like Qt4 dockwidgets, especially being able to drag
them around
and group them with tabs and having multiple groups in the
same area,
being able to float them as toplevel widget...
One thing I especially dislike about the standard
dockwidgets is that

a) they don't change from horizontal to vertical title
automatically
b) you can't dynamically decide to which docking area the
corners belong

I know both of these might not be fixable outside Qt, I just
wanted to
note them down.

> btw as I said before I will do some more prototyping
today. Just let  
> me know what you would like to see in the final
version. The license  
> is MIT.

Ok, here's one change we'd need: Another license :P MIT is
not allowed
for libraries, only LGPL or BSD without advertisement
clause.
kdevplatform has to follow kdelibs policies.

Oh, and another one: Documentation for the API ;)

Andreas

-- 
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Il giorno 19/lug/07, alle ore 20:45, Andreas Pakulat ha
scritto:
> You mean the standard Qt dockwidget-effects when
dragging dockwidgets?
> Or what else?
no I mean I want to show a little preview of the
"embedded view"  
while dragging

>
>>    - docking
>>    - animations
>>    - transparent views
>
> Wouldn't that be better done by the windowmanager with
things like
> composite? I mean it should be much faster than things
done with plain
> Qt...

no, the window manager can do it only for top level widgets.
You need  
to use Qt for child widgets.

>
>>    - eclipse-like views
>
> What do you mean with that? I mean Eclipse views are
not that  
> different
> from plain Qt dockwidgets, except that you can have
fast-views  
> which you

well, they are a bit different. For instance, you maximize a
view  
with a double click on a titlebar (I love it) and you have
perspectives.
>

> Well, I like Qt4 dockwidgets, especially being able to
drag them  
> around
> and group them with tabs and having multiple groups in
the same area,
> being able to float them as toplevel widget...
> One thing I especially dislike about the standard
dockwidgets is that
>
> a) they don't change from horizontal to vertical title
automatically
> b) you can't dynamically decide to which docking area
the corners  
> belong
>
> I know both of these might not be fixable outside Qt, I
just wanted to
> note them down.

I like Qt dock widgets too, I think they are great. But, I'm
not not  
sure I want to use dock widgets in an IDE.

>
>> btw as I said before I will do some more
prototyping today. Just let
>> me know what you would like to see in the final
version. The license
>> is MIT.
>
> Ok, here's one change we'd need: Another license :P MIT
is not allowed
> for libraries, only LGPL or BSD without advertisement
clause.
> kdevplatform has to follow kdelibs policies.

I don't know what you are talking about. MIT is compatible
with GPL  
and LGPL. I'm already using MIT in r++ and kdev-pg and  
*you* are  
using MIT too. Look at the copyright header of qmake.g

>
> Oh, and another one: Documentation for the API ;)

sure

ciao robe


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On 7/19/07, Roberto Raggi <robertokdevelop.org> wrote:
> I like Qt dock widgets too, I think they are great.
But, I'm not not
> sure I want to use dock widgets in an IDE.

Well, I sorta miss ideal too ;) The only thing is that we
were
discussing ui at akademy 2006 and agreed that we'd better
use qt4
dockwidgets. So, shall we reconsider that now?

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