KDevelop 4.0 development

Hi all,

To speed up development for KDevelop 4.0 I suggest:
- Do an alpha release to get publicity
- Send me sceenshots (On windows and OsX platforms it looks
expecially 
impresive) to put on the site.

Rationale: one of the most searched terms on "our"
google is:
"KDevelop for windows"
So I guess that by advertizing it we will get some
developers.


Regards,
-- 
Amilcar Lucas
KDevelop.org webmaster

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On 25.02.08 18:54:21, Amilcar do Carmo Lucas wrote:
> To speed up development for KDevelop 4.0 I suggest:
> - Do an alpha release to get publicity
> - Send me sceenshots (On windows and OsX platforms it
looks expecially 
> impresive) to put on the site.
> 
> Rationale: one of the most searched terms on
"our" google is:
> "KDevelop for windows"
> So I guess that by advertizing it we will get some
developers.

As far as screenshots are concerned: Check my blog at
apaku.wordpress.com, the posts with shots are relatively old
but there's
not that much that changed meanwhile.

About a release: I'm not sure that makes sense yet. I didn't
test for 2
or 3 weeks, but the c++ support/editor was quite crashy back
then. We
only have very basic project support. there are about 3 or 4
plugins
that are already quite far and thats it. Some API's still
need actual
code that uses them to get done right.

I know its "release early release often", but I'd
like to have an
application that we developers can use on a somewhat regular
base before
giving it to a wider audience. Especially as we might have
to deal with
a lot of "this is utter crap" messages and thats
quite disastrous to
developers motivation most of the time.

Given that the hackathon isn't that far away, we could think
about
scheduling an alpha release 2 or 3 weeks after that (after
the dust
settled ;) ). 

BTW: In case you've got your calendar open and have the
deadlines for
KDE 4.1 in there, yeap I don't think we can make it for that
release -
at least not if we do the same as the rest of KDE did for
4.0 and
personally I don't want that.

Andreas

-- 
Don't you wish you had more energy... or less ambition?

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On Monday 25 February 2008 22:53:52 Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> As far as screenshots are concerned: Check my blog at
> apaku.wordpress.com, the posts with shots are
relatively old but there's
> not that much that changed meanwhile.
>
> About a release: I'm not sure that makes sense yet. I
didn't test for 2
> or 3 weeks, but the c++ support/editor was quite crashy
back then. We
> only have very basic project support. there are about 3
or 4 plugins
> that are already quite far and thats it. Some API's
still need actual
> code that uses them to get done right.

C++ support is coming along nicely, but it needs some UI
refinement, hammering 
out some bugs, and a persistent du-chain before it can
really become useful. 
Fortunately Kris Wrong has written a mail last weekend that
he wants to start 
on the persistent du-chain.

When it comes to code-understanding, the C++ support is very
good already as 
long as the include-paths are resolved correctly, my last
tests all went 
surprisingly well. But there is some obvious bugs about
document-highlighting 
within kate, and those will have to wait until the hackathon
when hamish will 
have time again.

So to sum things up: The C++ support should be very usable
and helpful in a 
few weeks/months, but not yet.

> I know its "release early release often", but
I'd like to have an
> application that we developers can use on a somewhat
regular base before
> giving it to a wider audience. Especially as we might
have to deal with
> a lot of "this is utter crap" messages and
thats quite disastrous to
> developers motivation most of the time.
> Given that the hackathon isn't that far away, we could
think about
> scheduling an alpha release 2 or 3 weeks after that
(after the dust
> settled ;) ).

I agree to this. I don't think we will attract any new
developers by releasing 
KDevelop4 in its current state. Given that the C++ support
is moving 
forwards, what I'm a most worried about is the whole UI
framework that should 
glue it all together. After the hackathon sounds like a good
target for a 
usable version.

> BTW: In case you've got your calendar open and have the
deadlines for
> KDE 4.1 in there, yeap I don't think we can make it for
that release -
> at least not if we do the same as the rest of KDE did
for 4.0 and
> personally I don't want that.

Maybe we can release a beta at the time of KDE 4.1. I think
C++ support will 
be good by then. We surely won't be able to deliver
something 
feature-complete(compared to kdev3), but something that
people will like to 
use, with big advantages over kdevelop-3 or a simple
text-editor, and from 
then on kdevelop might start becoming more attractive to
developers again.

Greetings, David

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On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Andreas Pakulat
<apakugmx.de> wrote:
> On 25.02.08 18:54:21, Amilcar do Carmo Lucas wrote:
>  > To speed up development for KDevelop 4.0 I
suggest:
>  > - Do an alpha release to get publicity
>  > - Send me sceenshots (On windows and OsX
platforms it looks expecially
>  > impresive) to put on the site.
>  >
>  > Rationale: one of the most searched terms on
"our" google is:
>  > "KDevelop for windows"
>  > So I guess that by advertizing it we will get
some developers.
>
>  As far as screenshots are concerned: Check my blog at
>  apaku.wordpress.com, the posts with shots are
relatively old but there's
>  not that much that changed meanwhile.
>
>  About a release: I'm not sure that makes sense yet. I
didn't test for 2
>  or 3 weeks, but the c++ support/editor was quite
crashy back then. We
>  only have very basic project support. there are about
3 or 4 plugins
>  that are already quite far and thats it. Some API's
still need actual
>  code that uses them to get done right.
>

The C++ support is still pretty crashy.

>  I know its "release early release often",
but I'd like to have an
>  application that we developers can use on a somewhat
regular base before
>  giving it to a wider audience. Especially as we might
have to deal with
>  a lot of "this is utter crap" messages and
thats quite disastrous to
>  developers motivation most of the time.
>
>  Given that the hackathon isn't that far away, we could
think about
>  scheduling an alpha release 2 or 3 weeks after that
(after the dust
>  settled ;) ).
>
>  BTW: In case you've got your calendar open and have
the deadlines for
>  KDE 4.1 in there, yeap I don't think we can make it
for that release -
>  at least not if we do the same as the rest of KDE did
for 4.0 and
>  personally I don't want that.
>
>  Andreas
>

I want an alpha release after the hackathon. That makes the
most sense to me.

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On Tuesday 26 February 2008 04:08:41 Matt Rogers wrote:
> The C++ support is still pretty crashy.

In my experience, sublime and the editor are more crashy.
Anyway, since C++ 
allows many many uniqe code-paths, I cannot catch all
problems.

So to everyone: If C++ support in kdevelop-4 crashes, please
post a backtrace 
to the list.

The only known problem to me is that kdevelop can crash when
C++ support it is 
parsing while closing kdevelop.

Don't report problems with smart-ranges and highlighting,
those are known. ;)

Greetings, David

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Alpha status implies feature complete for the release. 
While KDevelop 4.0 will obviously not have all the features
of the KDevelop 3 series, it is nowhere near feature
complete.  It would seem more appropriate to label it as a
pre-alpha release (KDevelop 3.99.1 pre-alpha 1 or something
along those lines).

It would also be largely beneficial to have a feature
schedule.  A list of planned features and their current
status.  At this point no one really knows the status of the
project, or what features will be in KDevelop 4.0.  This
makes it very hard for new developers to get started on the
project.  Is there any plans for a discussion along these
lines at the hackathon?

Kris Wong

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On 27.02.08 09:17:06, Kris Wong wrote:
> Alpha status implies feature complete for the release. 
While KDevelop 4.0 will obviously not have all the features
of the KDevelop 3 series, it is nowhere near feature
complete.  It would seem more appropriate to label it as a
pre-alpha release (KDevelop 3.99.1 pre-alpha 1 or something
along those lines).

Uhm, isn't 99 more for betas? As for version number I'd got
for 3.60.0
or some such, even after hackathon...

> It would also be largely beneficial to have a feature
schedule.  A list of planned features and their current
status.  At this point no one really knows the status of the
project, or what features will be in KDevelop 4.0.  This
makes it very hard for new developers to get started on the
project.  Is there any plans for a discussion along these
lines at the hackathon?
 
There aren't many plans at all for the hackathon actually,
however this
one is probably a must-do. I guess everybody involved has
something like
a todo list somewhere (maybe just in his/her head) of what
needs to be
done for 4.0.0. 

We should really strive to put that into words and write it
down,
preferably at a public place.

I know the wiki has some 4.0 ideas on some pages, but we
really need to
start prioritizing them. Some time ago I wanted to put some
things into
bugzilla, unfortunately I didn't yet get to that :(

Andreas

-- 
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On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Andreas Pakulat
<apakugmx.de> wrote:
> On 27.02.08 09:17:06, Kris Wong wrote:
>  > Alpha status implies feature complete for the
release.  While KDevelop 4.0 will obviously not have all the
features of the KDevelop 3 series, it is nowhere near
feature complete.  It would seem more appropriate to label
it as a pre-alpha release (KDevelop 3.99.1 pre-alpha 1 or
something along those lines).
>
>  Uhm, isn't 99 more for betas? As for version number
I'd got for 3.60.0
>  or some such, even after hackathon...
>
>
>  > It would also be largely beneficial to have a
feature schedule.  A list of planned features and their
current status.  At this point no one really knows the
status of the project, or what features will be in KDevelop
4.0.  This makes it very hard for new developers to get
started on the project.  Is there any plans for a discussion
along these lines at the hackathon?
>
>  There aren't many plans at all for the hackathon
actually, however this
>  one is probably a must-do. I guess everybody involved
has something like
>  a todo list somewhere (maybe just in his/her head) of
what needs to be
>  done for 4.0.0.
>
>  We should really strive to put that into words and
write it down,
>  preferably at a public place.
>
>  I know the wiki has some 4.0 ideas on some pages, but
we really need to
>  start prioritizing them. Some time ago I wanted to put
some things into
>  bugzilla, unfortunately I didn't yet get to that :(
>
>  Andreas
>

It may also be possible to use the feature plan on
techbase.kde.org
for this. Even though we're most likely not releasing with
KDE 4.1,
that doesn't really stop us from using it. 
--
Matt

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Hi,

> Don't report problems with smart-ranges and
highlighting, those are known. ;)

I'm not sure if this is what you were referring to, but I am
running
into a deadlock when reloading source files.

Frames of interest are #6 and #68.  Is it intentional that
DocumentRangeObject's mutex is not recursive?

Regards,
Robert.


On 26/02/2008, David Nolden <zwabelgooglemail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 February 2008 04:08:41 Matt Rogers
wrote:
>  > The C++ support is still pretty crashy.
>
>  In my experience, sublime and the editor are more
crashy. Anyway, since C++
>  allows many many uniqe code-paths, I cannot catch all
problems.
>
>  So to everyone: If C++ support in kdevelop-4 crashes,
please post a backtrace
>  to the list.
>
>  The only known problem to me is that kdevelop can
crash when C++ support it is
>  parsing while closing kdevelop.
>
>  Don't report problems with smart-ranges and
highlighting, those are known. ;)
>
>  Greetings, David
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  KDevelop-devel mailing list
>  KDevelop-develkdevelop.org
>  https://barney.cs.uni-potsdam.de/mailman/listinf
o/kdevelop-devel
>

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On Tuesday 26 February 2008 04:26:36 David Nolden wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 February 2008 04:08:41 Matt Rogers
wrote:
> > The C++ support is still pretty crashy.
>
> In my experience, sublime and the editor are more
crashy. Anyway, since C++
> allows many many uniqe code-paths, I cannot catch all
problems.
>
> So to everyone: If C++ support in kdevelop-4 crashes,
please post a
> backtrace to the list.
>
> The only known problem to me is that kdevelop can crash
when C++ support it
> is parsing while closing kdevelop.
>
> Don't report problems with smart-ranges and
highlighting, those are known.
> ;)
>
> Greetings, David

I've been hitting an assert in the C++ part lately. I
haven't rebuilt it 
awhile, so it's possible that it's fixed now, but when I
wrote about C++ 
support being crashy, I hadn't been able to use KDevelop for
the last two days 
because of said assert.

I'll check if it's fixed and then report back. 
--
Matt


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