PDF restrictions

I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way to create a pdf
that could be
offered via email and/or via web that could be printed but
not saved by the
end user?

Linda Matula Schwartz, MDE
Library Information Specialist
Lehigh Valley Hospital and Health Network

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On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Linda_M.Schwartzlvh.com wrote:

> I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way to create a
pdf that could be
> offered via email and/or via web that could be printed
but not saved by the
> end user?

No. Even if a PDF could not be saved, the email that
contains it could be 
saved. And a user could intercept the printing of it in many
ways.

Regards,
....Bob Rasmussen,   President,   Rasmussen Software, Inc.

personal e-mail: rasanzio.com
 company e-mail: rsianzio.com
          voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time)
            fax: (US) 503-624-0760
            web: http://www.anzio.com
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Bob Rasmussen wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Linda_M.Schwartzlvh.com
wrote:
> 
>> I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way to create
a pdf that could be
>> offered via email and/or via web that could be
printed but not saved by the
>> end user?
> 
> No. Even if a PDF could not be saved, the email that
contains it could be 
> saved. And a user could intercept the printing of it in
many ways.
> 

Exactly.  The limitations you can build into the PDF file
itself is to 
password protect it and to keep people from altering it.

LEO


-- -------------------
www.leoklein.com (site)
www.ChicagoLibrarian.com (blog)

aim/msn/yhoo/goog: 'leorobertklein'
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Is there a particular reason you'd like to share that
requires you to
have this restriction?  My imagination is wandering with
visions of
super-secret 'eyes only' messages being sent through
e-mail.

Andrew

On 4/27/07, Leo Robert Klein <leoleoklein.com> wrote:
> Bob Rasmussen wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Linda_M.Schwartzlvh.com
wrote:
> >
> >> I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way to
create a pdf that could be
> >> offered via email and/or via web that could be
printed but not saved by the
> >> end user?
> >
> > No. Even if a PDF could not be saved, the email
that contains it could be
> > saved. And a user could intercept the printing of
it in many ways.
> >
>
> Exactly.  The limitations you can build into the PDF
file itself is to
> password protect it and to keep people from altering
it.
>
> LEO
>
>
> -- -------------------
> www.leoklein.com (site)
> www.ChicagoLibrarian.com (blog)
>
> aim/msn/yhoo/goog: 'leorobertklein'
> -- -------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
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Greetings,

Here is a link to an example of a pdf that is
very difficult to alter or save.  It is created
with OmniForm for pdf.  I don't think that
you can lock it up this way if it was sent by
e-mail.  But, embedded in the security of a web
site, you might be able to get right effect.

It cannot be printed using Cutepdf.

If you review File/ Document Properties you can
see the settings that were used. 

http://www.dlt.ri.gov/jobsri/StateJobs_files/C
S14Application07.pdf

*************************************************
Robert L. Balliot
1-401-421-5763
Skype: RBalliot
Bristol, Rhode Island
http://oce
anstatelibrarian.com/contact.htm
*************************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: web4lib-bounceswebjunction.org
[mailto:web4lib-bounceswebjunction.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
Hankinson
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:09 PM
To: web4libwebjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Web4lib] PDF restrictions

Is there a particular reason you'd like to share that
requires you to
have this restriction?  My imagination is wandering with
visions of
super-secret 'eyes only' messages being sent through
e-mail.

Andrew

On 4/27/07, Leo Robert Klein <leoleoklein.com> wrote:
> Bob Rasmussen wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Linda_M.Schwartzlvh.com
wrote:
> >
> >> I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way to
create a pdf that could be
> >> offered via email and/or via web that could be
printed but not saved by
the
> >> end user?
> >
> > No. Even if a PDF could not be saved, the email
that contains it could
be
> > saved. And a user could intercept the printing of
it in many ways.
> >
>
> Exactly.  The limitations you can build into the PDF
file itself is to
> password protect it and to keep people from altering
it.
>
> LEO
>
>
> -- -------------------
> www.leoklein.com (site)
> www.ChicagoLibrarian.com (blog)
>
> aim/msn/yhoo/goog: 'leorobertklein'
> -- -------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
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There certainly are ways of securing PDF documents and
implementing 
various forms of DRM (although not through Adobe).
OpenFile for example:
http:
//www.fileopen.com/product_publisher3.html
Files secured this way encrypt the data until the user
installs a 
plugin for acrobat/reader which then enforces the policies.
There are plenty of restrictions that can be implemented
including 
number of prints, number of computers the file can be saved
to etc. 
And no doing 'print to PDF' will not simply create a new
non-secure document.

The biggest user of this technology in my experience are
closed 
standards vendors, IHS for example http://global.ihs.com/

Of course I'm sure if one was truly determined it would not
be 
impossible to find a cracking utility.  But there are
solutions for 
making secure, restricted PDFs

--Will

At 10:12 AM 4/27/2007, Bob Rasmussen wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Linda_M.Schwartzlvh.com
wrote:
>
> > I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way to
create a pdf that could be
> > offered via email and/or via web that could be
printed but not saved by the
> > end user?
>
>No. Even if a PDF could not be saved, the email that
contains it could be
>saved. And a user could intercept the printing of it in
many ways.
>
>Regards,
>....Bob Rasmussen,   President,   Rasmussen Software,
Inc.
>
>personal e-mail: rasanzio.com
>  company e-mail: rsianzio.com
>           voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific
Time)
>             fax: (US) 503-624-0760
>             web: http://www.anzio.com
>_______________________________________________
>Web4lib mailing list
>Web4libwebjunction.org
>http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

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I was able to copy this file a number of times to my HD. 
Even though
the file->save functionality was disabled, I could still
produce a
printable, saveable PDF using only the tools on my OS, as
seen here:

h
ttp://www.transientstudent.net/Application-PDF.pdf

I'm not doing this out of malice - just to point out that if
there's a
will, there's a myriad of simple, easy ways, and all the
'save and
print restriction' functionality does is provide a false
sense of
security.

Andrew

On 4/27/07, Robert L. Balliot <rballiotoceanstatelibrarian.com> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Here is a link to an example of a pdf that is
> very difficult to alter or save.  It is created
> with OmniForm for pdf.  I don't think that
> you can lock it up this way if it was sent by
> e-mail.  But, embedded in the security of a web
> site, you might be able to get right effect.
>
> It cannot be printed using Cutepdf.
>
> If you review File/ Document Properties you can
> see the settings that were used.
>
> http://www.dlt.ri.gov/jobsri/StateJobs_files/C
S14Application07.pdf
>
> *************************************************
> Robert L. Balliot
> 1-401-421-5763
> Skype: RBalliot
> Bristol, Rhode Island
> http://oce
anstatelibrarian.com/contact.htm
> *************************************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: web4lib-bounceswebjunction.org
> [mailto:web4lib-bounceswebjunction.org] On Behalf
Of Andrew Hankinson
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:09 PM
> To: web4libwebjunction.org
> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] PDF restrictions
>
> Is there a particular reason you'd like to share that
requires you to
> have this restriction?  My imagination is wandering
with visions of
> super-secret 'eyes only' messages being sent through
e-mail.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 4/27/07, Leo Robert Klein <leoleoklein.com> wrote:
> > Bob Rasmussen wrote:
> > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Linda_M.Schwartzlvh.com
wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am new to Acrobat 8.0 -- is there a way
to create a pdf that could be
> > >> offered via email and/or via web that
could be printed but not saved by
> the
> > >> end user?
> > >
> > > No. Even if a PDF could not be saved, the
email that contains it could
> be
> > > saved. And a user could intercept the
printing of it in many ways.
> > >
> >
> > Exactly.  The limitations you can build into the
PDF file itself is to
> > password protect it and to keep people from
altering it.
> >
> > LEO
> >
> >
> > -- -------------------
> > www.leoklein.com (site)
> > www.ChicagoLibrarian.com (blog)
> >
> > aim/msn/yhoo/goog: 'leorobertklein'
> > -- -------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > Web4lib mailing list
> > Web4libwebjunction.org
> > http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
>
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Robert L. Balliot writes:
 > Here is a link to an example of a pdf that is
 > very difficult to alter or save.  It is created
 > with OmniForm for pdf.  I don't think that
 > you can lock it up this way if it was sent by
 > e-mail.  But, embedded in the security of a web
 > site, you might be able to get right effect.
 > 
 > It cannot be printed using Cutepdf.

I use xpdf as my default PDF viewer.  It printed this
without
complaint or comment.  As others have commented, you CANNOT
secure a
document (or any other file) except by password, hardware
dependence
or some similar contrivance.  You may use software that
happens to
implement some restrictions, but someone else will write
other
software that doesn't implement those restrictions.

I wholeheartedly agree with those who have argued that all
these
"restrictions" achieve is giving a false sense of
security.

 _/|_	
____________________________________________________________
_______
/o ) /  Mike Taylor    <mikeindexdata.com>    http://www.miketaylor.or
g.uk
)_v__/  "Operas are all the same really.  Boy meets
girl boy dumps
	 old girlfriend new girlfriend dumps boy boy goes back to
old
	 girlfriend optional repeat one girl dies.  Easy" --
Steve
	 Austwick.

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