Thin Client Opinions

My manager is looking for opinions from organizations that
are either moving
toward or away from thin clients.  We are specifically
looking at using them
for our public patron computers.  We've completed an
evaluation for our
district but would like to know what other libraries are
doing.  If you
wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her, send me an
email and I'll
forward it.


Thanks,

Gem Stone-Logan
Weld Library District
http://www.mylibrary.us/

gemstonelogangmail.com
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

If you are looking for a thin client that just uses a web
browser, I would go for something with Windows XP Embeded
like the HP t5720.  I do not like Windows CE because it does
not run java apps well enough to some of our databases like
the library catalog and Mitchell's Auto-Repair.  It works
well with the Roaming Profiles and Group Policies from an AD
server.

________________________________

From: web4lib-bounceswebjunction.org on behalf of Gem
Stone-Logan
Sent: Wed 8/29/2007 8:14 AM
To: web4libwebjunction.org
Subject: [Web4lib] Thin Client Opinions



My manager is looking for opinions from organizations that
are either moving
toward or away from thin clients.  We are specifically
looking at using them
for our public patron computers.  We've completed an
evaluation for our
district but would like to know what other libraries are
doing.  If you
wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her, send me an
email and I'll
forward it.


Thanks,

Gem Stone-Logan
Weld Library District
http://www.mylibrary.us/

gemstonelogangmail.com
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/





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by e-mail or telephone, and delete the original message
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

If you are looking for a thin client that just uses a web
browser, I would go for something with Windows XP Embeded
like the HP t5720.  I do not like Windows CE because it does
not run java apps well enough to some of our databases like
the library catalog and Mitchell's Auto-Repair.  It works
well with the Roaming Profiles and Group Policies from an AD
server.

________________________________

From: web4lib-bounceswebjunction.org on behalf of Gem
Stone-Logan
Sent: Wed 8/29/2007 8:14 AM
To: web4libwebjunction.org
Subject: [Web4lib] Thin Client Opinions



My manager is looking for opinions from organizations that
are either moving
toward or away from thin clients.  We are specifically
looking at using them
for our public patron computers.  We've completed an
evaluation for our
district but would like to know what other libraries are
doing.  If you
wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her, send me an
email and I'll
forward it.


Thanks,

Gem Stone-Logan
Weld Library District
http://www.mylibrary.us/

gemstonelogangmail.com
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/





THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL
OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN
INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, AND EXEMPT
FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS. If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or
agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution, forwarding, or copying of this communication
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify the sender immediately
by e-mail or telephone, and delete the original message
immediately. Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Gem:

I have presented introductory workshop sessions for small
libraries on
using terminal services (aka, thin-client technology) in a
public access
setting and found in my experience that terminal services
provides an
excellent platform for reducing ongoing costs/support for
libraries. In
my setup, I've used a commodity (consumer) low-end desktop
computer to
serve up to 15 recycled computers acting as thin clients
(surprisingly,
works incredibly well). Obviously, using a "real"
server platform with a
single- or dual-processor Xeon dual-core server with lots of
RAM will
allow you to serve many, many clients. Scott V., in his
response
earlier, demonstrates that result.

The one sticky point with thin clients is motion video
(whether online
3d gaming or simple video streams). Full motion video will
bog down a
terminal server and/or its network connection. In my mind,
there are a
couple of ways of handling video in a public access setting.
First, if
you allow video streams, be sure to analyze your current
network
environment. Gigabit networking will provide some relief
from network
congestions; the network link from your terminal server to
your switch
absolutely must be a gigabit link. Second, if you have the
capability
(using a proxy server, for example) of blocking specific
types of files
at specific client locations, you can designate certain
stations to
support video and restrict it on others. This way you can
limit your
performance hit. Third, you can also look at a multi-headed
(multi-user)
solution such as Userful's DiscoverStation (mentioned
already). This
works a bit differently than terminal services and limits
the total
users to about 8 or 10 per computer, requiring multiple host
computers
in a larger environment.

Otherwise, for general web surfing, e-mail, and office
functions (what
most people use), terminal services provides a very, very
good solution
for minimizing technology costs. I highly recommend looking
at its
benefits for your library. You can implement a Windows
Terminal Server
solution ($, and there's a 180-day evaluation version of
Windows Server
2003 you can download--you'll be able to implement a Windows
Terminal
Server and experiment with it for 120 days before it times
out--http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/b
b430831.aspx), a
Citrix solution ($$$), or investigate the benefits of open
source
software ($0)--there is currently a Linux distribution
slanted toward
education environments with Linux terminal services
available: Edubuntu.
It's free to download and test/review/implement
(http://www.edubuntu.
org/Download). It uses LTSP, the Linux Terminal
Server Project, which you can add to any Linux flavor.

Good luck with your project!

--Robert

********************************************
Robert L. Williams
Technology Trainer/Consultant
Williams Consulting
4206 Dakin Place
Corpus Christi, TX 78411
361-855-2802
http://www.rlwconsultin
g.com/


Gem Stone-Logan wrote:
> My manager is looking for opinions from organizations
that are either moving
> toward or away from thin clients.  We are specifically
looking at using them
> for our public patron computers.  We've completed an
evaluation for our
> district but would like to know what other libraries
are doing.  If you
> wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her, send me
an email and I'll
> forward it.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gem Stone-Logan
> Weld Library District
> http://www.mylibrary.us/

> gemstonelogangmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
> 

_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Gem:

I have presented introductory workshop sessions for small
libraries on
using terminal services (aka, thin-client technology) in a
public access
setting and found in my experience that terminal services
provides an
excellent platform for reducing ongoing costs/support for
libraries. In
my setup, I've used a commodity (consumer) low-end desktop
computer to
serve up to 15 recycled computers acting as thin clients
(surprisingly,
works incredibly well). Obviously, using a "real"
server platform with a
single- or dual-processor Xeon dual-core server with lots of
RAM will
allow you to serve many, many clients. Scott V., in his
response
earlier, demonstrates that result.

The one sticky point with thin clients is motion video
(whether online
3d gaming or simple video streams). Full motion video will
bog down a
terminal server and/or its network connection. In my mind,
there are a
couple of ways of handling video in a public access setting.
First, if
you allow video streams, be sure to analyze your current
network
environment. Gigabit networking will provide some relief
from network
congestions; the network link from your terminal server to
your switch
absolutely must be a gigabit link. Second, if you have the
capability
(using a proxy server, for example) of blocking specific
types of files
at specific client locations, you can designate certain
stations to
support video and restrict it on others. This way you can
limit your
performance hit. Third, you can also look at a multi-headed
(multi-user)
solution such as Userful's DiscoverStation (mentioned
already). This
works a bit differently than terminal services and limits
the total
users to about 8 or 10 per computer, requiring multiple host
computers
in a larger environment.

Otherwise, for general web surfing, e-mail, and office
functions (what
most people use), terminal services provides a very, very
good solution
for minimizing technology costs. I highly recommend looking
at its
benefits for your library. You can implement a Windows
Terminal Server
solution ($, and there's a 180-day evaluation version of
Windows Server
2003 you can download--you'll be able to implement a Windows
Terminal
Server and experiment with it for 120 days before it times
out--http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/b
b430831.aspx), a
Citrix solution ($$$), or investigate the benefits of open
source
software ($0)--there is currently a Linux distribution
slanted toward
education environments with Linux terminal services
available: Edubuntu.
It's free to download and test/review/implement
(http://www.edubuntu.
org/Download). It uses LTSP, the Linux Terminal
Server Project, which you can add to any Linux flavor.

Good luck with your project!

--Robert

********************************************
Robert L. Williams
Technology Trainer/Consultant
Williams Consulting
4206 Dakin Place
Corpus Christi, TX 78411
361-855-2802
http://www.rlwconsultin
g.com/


Gem Stone-Logan wrote:
> My manager is looking for opinions from organizations
that are either moving
> toward or away from thin clients.  We are specifically
looking at using them
> for our public patron computers.  We've completed an
evaluation for our
> district but would like to know what other libraries
are doing.  If you
> wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her, send me
an email and I'll
> forward it.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gem Stone-Logan
> Weld Library District
> http://www.mylibrary.us/

> gemstonelogangmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
> 

_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

We run a pair of Windows 2003 servers to support OPACs
terminals at two 
separate locations and it works great. I also had purchased
some 
terminals to test out for replacing Internet and word
processing PCs. At 
the time I tested them, the issues I ran into included:

1) Video and multimedia support
2) Support for USB devices
3) Support for CD burning

If I had done this say 3 or 4 years ago, I could probably
have made that 
work since #1 was really the only issue. But over the past
couple of 
years, the demand and expectation by patrons for support for
#2 and #3 
has really grown significantly. I know that there are
terminals that 
include USB ports and can be purchased to include CD and
floppy drives. 
I also think that the more recent versions of MS's RDP
client have 
decent support for redirect to peripherals, USB devices and
audio. But 
to make those work well, the terminals that you have to
purchase to 
include support for 1 - 3 approach the price of an
equivalent PC. With 
tools like Active Directory and DeepFreeze, the hands on
maintenance 
required to keep up PCs isn't as onerous as it once was. It
just didn't 
seem like it was worth the trade-off, especially since I
couldn't 
predict what new technology patrons would want/need in the
next couple 
of years.

For those who have gone the terminal route for public
Internet 
computers, how well do they support 1 - 3 and how do you
handle demand 
for those?

Thanks,

Andrew Mutch
Library Systems Technician
Waterford Township Public Library
Waterford, MI



Robert L. Williams wrote:
> Gem:
>
> I have presented introductory workshop sessions for
small libraries on
> using terminal services (aka, thin-client technology)
in a public access
> setting and found in my experience that terminal
services provides an
> excellent platform for reducing ongoing costs/support
for libraries. In
> my setup, I've used a commodity (consumer) low-end
desktop computer to
> serve up to 15 recycled computers acting as thin
clients (surprisingly,
> works incredibly well). Obviously, using a
"real" server platform with a
> single- or dual-processor Xeon dual-core server with
lots of RAM will
> allow you to serve many, many clients. Scott V., in his
response
> earlier, demonstrates that result.
>
> The one sticky point with thin clients is motion video
(whether online
> 3d gaming or simple video streams). Full motion video
will bog down a
> terminal server and/or its network connection. In my
mind, there are a
> couple of ways of handling video in a public access
setting. First, if
> you allow video streams, be sure to analyze your
current network
> environment. Gigabit networking will provide some
relief from network
> congestions; the network link from your terminal server
to your switch
> absolutely must be a gigabit link. Second, if you have
the capability
> (using a proxy server, for example) of blocking
specific types of files
> at specific client locations, you can designate certain
stations to
> support video and restrict it on others. This way you
can limit your
> performance hit. Third, you can also look at a
multi-headed (multi-user)
> solution such as Userful's DiscoverStation (mentioned
already). This
> works a bit differently than terminal services and
limits the total
> users to about 8 or 10 per computer, requiring multiple
host computers
> in a larger environment.
>
> Otherwise, for general web surfing, e-mail, and office
functions (what
> most people use), terminal services provides a very,
very good solution
> for minimizing technology costs. I highly recommend
looking at its
> benefits for your library. You can implement a Windows
Terminal Server
> solution ($, and there's a 180-day evaluation version
of Windows Server
> 2003 you can download--you'll be able to implement a
Windows Terminal
> Server and experiment with it for 120 days before it
times
> out--http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/b
b430831.aspx), a
> Citrix solution ($$$), or investigate the benefits of
open source
> software ($0)--there is currently a Linux distribution
slanted toward
> education environments with Linux terminal services
available: Edubuntu.
> It's free to download and test/review/implement
> (http://www.edubuntu.
org/Download). It uses LTSP, the Linux Terminal
> Server Project, which you can add to any Linux flavor.
>
> Good luck with your project!
>
> --Robert
>
> ********************************************
> Robert L. Williams
> Technology Trainer/Consultant
> Williams Consulting
> 4206 Dakin Place
> Corpus Christi, TX 78411
> 361-855-2802
> http://www.rlwconsultin
g.com/
>
>
> Gem Stone-Logan wrote:
>> My manager is looking for opinions from
organizations that are either 
>> moving
>> toward or away from thin clients.  We are
specifically looking at 
>> using them
>> for our public patron computers.  We've completed
an evaluation for our
>> district but would like to know what other
libraries are doing.  If you
>> wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her,
send me an email and 
>> I'll
>> forward it.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gem Stone-Logan
>> Weld Library District
>> http://www.mylibrary.us/

>> gemstonelogangmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4libwebjunction.org
>> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

We run a pair of Windows 2003 servers to support OPACs
terminals at two 
separate locations and it works great. I also had purchased
some 
terminals to test out for replacing Internet and word
processing PCs. At 
the time I tested them, the issues I ran into included:

1) Video and multimedia support
2) Support for USB devices
3) Support for CD burning

If I had done this say 3 or 4 years ago, I could probably
have made that 
work since #1 was really the only issue. But over the past
couple of 
years, the demand and expectation by patrons for support for
#2 and #3 
has really grown significantly. I know that there are
terminals that 
include USB ports and can be purchased to include CD and
floppy drives. 
I also think that the more recent versions of MS's RDP
client have 
decent support for redirect to peripherals, USB devices and
audio. But 
to make those work well, the terminals that you have to
purchase to 
include support for 1 - 3 approach the price of an
equivalent PC. With 
tools like Active Directory and DeepFreeze, the hands on
maintenance 
required to keep up PCs isn't as onerous as it once was. It
just didn't 
seem like it was worth the trade-off, especially since I
couldn't 
predict what new technology patrons would want/need in the
next couple 
of years.

For those who have gone the terminal route for public
Internet 
computers, how well do they support 1 - 3 and how do you
handle demand 
for those?

Thanks,

Andrew Mutch
Library Systems Technician
Waterford Township Public Library
Waterford, MI



Robert L. Williams wrote:
> Gem:
>
> I have presented introductory workshop sessions for
small libraries on
> using terminal services (aka, thin-client technology)
in a public access
> setting and found in my experience that terminal
services provides an
> excellent platform for reducing ongoing costs/support
for libraries. In
> my setup, I've used a commodity (consumer) low-end
desktop computer to
> serve up to 15 recycled computers acting as thin
clients (surprisingly,
> works incredibly well). Obviously, using a
"real" server platform with a
> single- or dual-processor Xeon dual-core server with
lots of RAM will
> allow you to serve many, many clients. Scott V., in his
response
> earlier, demonstrates that result.
>
> The one sticky point with thin clients is motion video
(whether online
> 3d gaming or simple video streams). Full motion video
will bog down a
> terminal server and/or its network connection. In my
mind, there are a
> couple of ways of handling video in a public access
setting. First, if
> you allow video streams, be sure to analyze your
current network
> environment. Gigabit networking will provide some
relief from network
> congestions; the network link from your terminal server
to your switch
> absolutely must be a gigabit link. Second, if you have
the capability
> (using a proxy server, for example) of blocking
specific types of files
> at specific client locations, you can designate certain
stations to
> support video and restrict it on others. This way you
can limit your
> performance hit. Third, you can also look at a
multi-headed (multi-user)
> solution such as Userful's DiscoverStation (mentioned
already). This
> works a bit differently than terminal services and
limits the total
> users to about 8 or 10 per computer, requiring multiple
host computers
> in a larger environment.
>
> Otherwise, for general web surfing, e-mail, and office
functions (what
> most people use), terminal services provides a very,
very good solution
> for minimizing technology costs. I highly recommend
looking at its
> benefits for your library. You can implement a Windows
Terminal Server
> solution ($, and there's a 180-day evaluation version
of Windows Server
> 2003 you can download--you'll be able to implement a
Windows Terminal
> Server and experiment with it for 120 days before it
times
> out--http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/b
b430831.aspx), a
> Citrix solution ($$$), or investigate the benefits of
open source
> software ($0)--there is currently a Linux distribution
slanted toward
> education environments with Linux terminal services
available: Edubuntu.
> It's free to download and test/review/implement
> (http://www.edubuntu.
org/Download). It uses LTSP, the Linux Terminal
> Server Project, which you can add to any Linux flavor.
>
> Good luck with your project!
>
> --Robert
>
> ********************************************
> Robert L. Williams
> Technology Trainer/Consultant
> Williams Consulting
> 4206 Dakin Place
> Corpus Christi, TX 78411
> 361-855-2802
> http://www.rlwconsultin
g.com/
>
>
> Gem Stone-Logan wrote:
>> My manager is looking for opinions from
organizations that are either 
>> moving
>> toward or away from thin clients.  We are
specifically looking at 
>> using them
>> for our public patron computers.  We've completed
an evaluation for our
>> district but would like to know what other
libraries are doing.  If you
>> wouldn't mind discussing this subject with her,
send me an email and 
>> I'll
>> forward it.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gem Stone-Logan
>> Weld Library District
>> http://www.mylibrary.us/

>> gemstonelogangmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4libwebjunction.org
>> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/