Re: Announcement: Open Source In Libraries Website

Ross,
I know Jeff Humphrey and "know of" Allen Tate.  I
don't think Allen was 
making a comparison and *I* simply stated that there is room
for more 
coverage of  OSS, or FLOSS, (whichever acronym you prefer)
for 
libraries.  It seemed to me that Allen's statement about it
being a "we 
thing instead of a me thing" was meant to encourage
participation and 
stimulate involvement rather than anything else.

It is easy for veterans in this area to forget that some
librarians are 
still in an information seeking mode and evaluation phases
of their open 
source education.  I speak from experience in this regard. 
Open Source 
is a 'buzzword' right now for LIS and many of the
administrators who 
hear it have no clue what it really means - it's
applications, 
limitations, development requirements, etc.

This is a site based in Indiana that will draw lots of local
folks, in 
addition to out-of-state users.  In the context of the
principles of 
freedom and shared development that open source is based on,
I would 
think that diversity, multiple options for access to
information, and 
inclusiveness would be welcomed rather than condemned.  I
can't see how 
another community would hurt open source discussions.  Users
groups, web 
forums, and topical communities spring up to address a need.
If the need 
is big enough it stands to reason that there will be more of
them that 
arise.

Perhaps it was my mistake to have mentioned oss4lib at all.

Just an opinion...

-- 
*Chadwick J. Seagraves M.S.L.S
Library Systems Analyst
Private Academic Library Network of Indiana
Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority
(317) 298-6570 ext. 116 or (800)-733-1899
6202 Morenci Trail
Indianapolis, IN 46268
palni.edu <http://www.palni.edu>

InfoSciPhi.info <http://www.infosciphi.
info>

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:57:15 -0400
From: "Ross Singer" <rossfsingergmail.com>
Subject: [Web4lib] Re: [CODE4LIB] Announcement: Open Source
In
	Libraries	Website
To: "Code for Libraries" <CODE4LIBlistserv.nd.edu>,
	"web4libwebjunction.org" <web4libwebjunction.org>
Message-ID:
	<23b83f160803270857o55d4deddk740f8d752c334962mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

How is oss4lib.org and oss4lib-discuss not a "we"
thing?

How is yet another community based around a rather small
domain a good thing?

-Ross.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Chadwick Seagraves
<chadwickpalni.edu> wrote:

> >
> > This might be of interest to some of you.  I know
that oss4lib has been
> >  around for a while, but I think there is room for
more coverage.
> >  --

_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

I think my point is that absolutely zero effort was made to
see if the
oss4lib community would be interested in widening its tent
for such an
effort.  Honestly, oss4lib (both the site and the mailing
list) are
pretty low-traffic, there's just not that much
"news" about OSS
produced by libraries at any given time.  I think an
injection of
energy and renewed interest would be greatly beneficial, but
that's
just me speaking.

It seems totally appropriate that such an educational
initiative
should happen in the same place that opensource being
*produced* by
libraries.  Connect the interested to the experienced, etc.
etc.

Instead, it looks like we'll have two communities and two
mailing
lists.  Two communities, I note, that would have been
completely
ignorant of each other if not for this mailing list thread.

-Ross.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Chadwick Seagraves
<chadwickpalni.edu> wrote:
> Ross,
>  I know Jeff Humphrey and "know of" Allen
Tate.  I don't think Allen was
>  making a comparison and *I* simply stated that there
is room for more
>  coverage of  OSS, or FLOSS, (whichever acronym you
prefer) for
>  libraries.  It seemed to me that Allen's statement
about it being a "we
>  thing instead of a me thing" was meant to
encourage participation and
>  stimulate involvement rather than anything else.
>
>  It is easy for veterans in this area to forget that
some librarians are
>  still in an information seeking mode and evaluation
phases of their open
>  source education.  I speak from experience in this
regard.  Open Source
>  is a 'buzzword' right now for LIS and many of the
administrators who
>  hear it have no clue what it really means - it's
applications,
>  limitations, development requirements, etc.
>
>  This is a site based in Indiana that will draw lots of
local folks, in
>  addition to out-of-state users.  In the context of the
principles of
>  freedom and shared development that open source is
based on, I would
>  think that diversity, multiple options for access to
information, and
>  inclusiveness would be welcomed rather than condemned.
 I can't see how
>  another community would hurt open source discussions. 
Users groups, web
>  forums, and topical communities spring up to address a
need. If the need
>  is big enough it stands to reason that there will be
more of them that
>  arise.
>
>  Perhaps it was my mistake to have mentioned oss4lib at
all.
>
>  Just an opinion...
>
>  --
>
> *Chadwick J. Seagraves M.S.L.S
>  Library Systems Analyst
>  Private Academic Library Network of Indiana
>  Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority
>  (317) 298-6570 ext. 116 or (800)-733-1899
>  6202 Morenci Trail
>  Indianapolis, IN 46268
>  palni.edu <http://www.palni.edu>

>  InfoSciPhi.info <http://www.infosciphi.
info>
>
>  Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:57:15 -0400
>  From: "Ross Singer" <rossfsingergmail.com>
>  Subject: [Web4lib] Re: [CODE4LIB] Announcement: Open
Source In
>         Libraries       Website
>  To: "Code for Libraries" <CODE4LIBlistserv.nd.edu>,
>         "web4libwebjunction.org"
<web4libwebjunction.org>
>  Message-ID:
>        
<23b83f160803270857o55d4deddk740f8d752c334962mail.gmail.com>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
>  How is oss4lib.org and oss4lib-discuss not a
"we" thing?
>
>  How is yet another community based around a rather
small domain a good thing?
>
>  -Ross.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Chadwick Seagraves
<chadwickpalni.edu> wrote:
>
>  > >
>  > > This might be of interest to some of you.  I
know that oss4lib has been
>  > >  around for a while, but I think there is
room for more coverage.
>  > >  --
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Web4lib mailing list
>  Web4libwebjunction.org
>  http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

I think my point is that absolutely zero effort was made to
see if the
oss4lib community would be interested in widening its tent
for such an
effort.  Honestly, oss4lib (both the site and the mailing
list) are
pretty low-traffic, there's just not that much
"news" about OSS
produced by libraries at any given time.  I think an
injection of
energy and renewed interest would be greatly beneficial, but
that's
just me speaking.

It seems totally appropriate that such an educational
initiative
should happen in the same place that opensource being
*produced* by
libraries.  Connect the interested to the experienced, etc.
etc.

Instead, it looks like we'll have two communities and two
mailing
lists.  Two communities, I note, that would have been
completely
ignorant of each other if not for this mailing list thread.

-Ross.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Chadwick Seagraves
<chadwickpalni.edu> wrote:
> Ross,
>  I know Jeff Humphrey and "know of" Allen
Tate.  I don't think Allen was
>  making a comparison and *I* simply stated that there
is room for more
>  coverage of  OSS, or FLOSS, (whichever acronym you
prefer) for
>  libraries.  It seemed to me that Allen's statement
about it being a "we
>  thing instead of a me thing" was meant to
encourage participation and
>  stimulate involvement rather than anything else.
>
>  It is easy for veterans in this area to forget that
some librarians are
>  still in an information seeking mode and evaluation
phases of their open
>  source education.  I speak from experience in this
regard.  Open Source
>  is a 'buzzword' right now for LIS and many of the
administrators who
>  hear it have no clue what it really means - it's
applications,
>  limitations, development requirements, etc.
>
>  This is a site based in Indiana that will draw lots of
local folks, in
>  addition to out-of-state users.  In the context of the
principles of
>  freedom and shared development that open source is
based on, I would
>  think that diversity, multiple options for access to
information, and
>  inclusiveness would be welcomed rather than condemned.
 I can't see how
>  another community would hurt open source discussions. 
Users groups, web
>  forums, and topical communities spring up to address a
need. If the need
>  is big enough it stands to reason that there will be
more of them that
>  arise.
>
>  Perhaps it was my mistake to have mentioned oss4lib at
all.
>
>  Just an opinion...
>
>  --
>
> *Chadwick J. Seagraves M.S.L.S
>  Library Systems Analyst
>  Private Academic Library Network of Indiana
>  Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority
>  (317) 298-6570 ext. 116 or (800)-733-1899
>  6202 Morenci Trail
>  Indianapolis, IN 46268
>  palni.edu <http://www.palni.edu>

>  InfoSciPhi.info <http://www.infosciphi.
info>
>
>  Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:57:15 -0400
>  From: "Ross Singer" <rossfsingergmail.com>
>  Subject: [Web4lib] Re: [CODE4LIB] Announcement: Open
Source In
>         Libraries       Website
>  To: "Code for Libraries" <CODE4LIBlistserv.nd.edu>,
>         "web4libwebjunction.org"
<web4libwebjunction.org>
>  Message-ID:
>        
<23b83f160803270857o55d4deddk740f8d752c334962mail.gmail.com>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
>  How is oss4lib.org and oss4lib-discuss not a
"we" thing?
>
>  How is yet another community based around a rather
small domain a good thing?
>
>  -Ross.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Chadwick Seagraves
<chadwickpalni.edu> wrote:
>
>  > >
>  > > This might be of interest to some of you.  I
know that oss4lib has been
>  > >  around for a while, but I think there is
room for more coverage.
>  > >  --
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Web4lib mailing list
>  Web4libwebjunction.org
>  http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

  Ross Singer writes

> Instead, it looks like we'll have two communities and
two mailing
> lists.  Two communities, I note, that would have been
completely
> ignorant of each other if not for this mailing list
thread.

  Exactly.

  More generally, there does not appear to be a list of all
  library lists around. Such a list could be convenient to
  avoid duplication of lists. 

  And that brings me back to a point I made on oss4lib in
2001. Rather
  than just working with OSS to build applications that work

  around the limitations of non-free information, it would
  be good to start working on building free structured
information.
  A list of all library email lists, together with a
facility for
  people to manage subscriptions in bulk, plus a navigation
  facility that would allow a user looking at one list, to
  see related lists, would be a tremendous service to the 
  profession. And that's just one example idea. For another
  example, I am currently involved in endeavours to build a
  dataset of all academic institutions and of authors
working
  there, with links to the papers that they have written. I
  admit it's a very long-run project.
 
  Cheers,


  Thomas Krichel                    http://openlib.org/ho
me/krichel
                               
RePEc:per:1965-06-05:thomas_krichel
  phone: +7 383 330 6813                       skype:
thomaskrichel
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

  Ross Singer writes

> Instead, it looks like we'll have two communities and
two mailing
> lists.  Two communities, I note, that would have been
completely
> ignorant of each other if not for this mailing list
thread.

  Exactly.

  More generally, there does not appear to be a list of all
  library lists around. Such a list could be convenient to
  avoid duplication of lists. 

  And that brings me back to a point I made on oss4lib in
2001. Rather
  than just working with OSS to build applications that work

  around the limitations of non-free information, it would
  be good to start working on building free structured
information.
  A list of all library email lists, together with a
facility for
  people to manage subscriptions in bulk, plus a navigation
  facility that would allow a user looking at one list, to
  see related lists, would be a tremendous service to the 
  profession. And that's just one example idea. For another
  example, I am currently involved in endeavours to build a
  dataset of all academic institutions and of authors
working
  there, with links to the papers that they have written. I
  admit it's a very long-run project.
 
  Cheers,


  Thomas Krichel                    http://openlib.org/ho
me/krichel
                               
RePEc:per:1965-06-05:thomas_krichel
  phone: +7 383 330 6813                       skype:
thomaskrichel
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Breaking out of lurker mode...

There's a natural home for a list of library lists--well,
two of them
(that's the way things work).

The obvious candidate is LISWiki
http://liswiki.org/
wiki/Main_Page
where someone just needs to start a page of library lists
and others need to
populate it.

The other candidate is Library Success: A Best Practices
Wiki,
h
ttp://www.libsuccess.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
but I think it would make more sense to have a page there
linking to
LISWiki.

Then, once such a page exists, I'd link to either or both in
the PALINET
Leadership Network (PLN), a third wiki that probably isn't
an ideal
candidate location
http://pln.palinet.org

In any case, an existing multilibrary library-related wiki
does seem like
the ideal location for such a list....
-walt crawford, director/managing editor, PLN-

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Thomas Krichel
<krichelopenlib.org> wrote:

>
>
>  Ross Singer writes
>
> > Instead, it looks like we'll have two communities
and two mailing
> > lists.  Two communities, I note, that would have
been completely
> > ignorant of each other if not for this mailing
list thread.
>
>  Exactly.
>
>  More generally, there does not appear to be a list of
all
>  library lists around. Such a list could be convenient
to
>  avoid duplication of lists.
>
>  And that brings me back to a point I made on oss4lib
in 2001. Rather
>  than just working with OSS to build applications that
work
>  around the limitations of non-free information, it
would
>  be good to start working on building free structured
information.
>  A list of all library email lists, together with a
facility for
>  people to manage subscriptions in bulk, plus a
navigation
>  facility that would allow a user looking at one list,
to
>  see related lists, would be a tremendous service to
the
>  profession. And that's just one example idea. For
another
>  example, I am currently involved in endeavours to
build a
>  dataset of all academic institutions and of authors
working
>  there, with links to the papers that they have
written. I
>  admit it's a very long-run project.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>
>  Thomas Krichel                    http://openlib.org/ho
me/krichel
>                               
RePEc:per:1965-06-05:thomas_krichel
>  phone: +7 383 330 6813                       skype:
thomaskrichel
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

There's actually already a list of lists, it's just not
complete, and
it's called "discussion groups"

http://lisw
iki.org/wiki/Discussion_groups


On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Walt Crawford
<waltcrawfordgmail.com> wrote:
> Breaking out of lurker mode...
>
> There's a natural home for a list of library
lists--well, two of them
> (that's the way things work).
>
> The obvious candidate is LISWiki
> http://liswiki.org/
wiki/Main_Page
> where someone just needs to start a page of library
lists and others need to
> populate it.
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Breaking out of lurker mode...

There's a natural home for a list of library lists--well,
two of them
(that's the way things work).

The obvious candidate is LISWiki
http://liswiki.org/
wiki/Main_Page
where someone just needs to start a page of library lists
and others need to
populate it.

The other candidate is Library Success: A Best Practices
Wiki,
h
ttp://www.libsuccess.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
but I think it would make more sense to have a page there
linking to
LISWiki.

Then, once such a page exists, I'd link to either or both in
the PALINET
Leadership Network (PLN), a third wiki that probably isn't
an ideal
candidate location
http://pln.palinet.org

In any case, an existing multilibrary library-related wiki
does seem like
the ideal location for such a list....
-walt crawford, director/managing editor, PLN-

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Thomas Krichel
<krichelopenlib.org> wrote:

>
>
>  Ross Singer writes
>
> > Instead, it looks like we'll have two communities
and two mailing
> > lists.  Two communities, I note, that would have
been completely
> > ignorant of each other if not for this mailing
list thread.
>
>  Exactly.
>
>  More generally, there does not appear to be a list of
all
>  library lists around. Such a list could be convenient
to
>  avoid duplication of lists.
>
>  And that brings me back to a point I made on oss4lib
in 2001. Rather
>  than just working with OSS to build applications that
work
>  around the limitations of non-free information, it
would
>  be good to start working on building free structured
information.
>  A list of all library email lists, together with a
facility for
>  people to manage subscriptions in bulk, plus a
navigation
>  facility that would allow a user looking at one list,
to
>  see related lists, would be a tremendous service to
the
>  profession. And that's just one example idea. For
another
>  example, I am currently involved in endeavours to
build a
>  dataset of all academic institutions and of authors
working
>  there, with links to the papers that they have
written. I
>  admit it's a very long-run project.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>
>  Thomas Krichel                    http://openlib.org/ho
me/krichel
>                               
RePEc:per:1965-06-05:thomas_krichel
>  phone: +7 383 330 6813                       skype:
thomaskrichel
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Blake--thanks...

And now there's a page called Lists that's mostly a link to
Discussion
groups.

It really is that easy. Now people just need to fill in the
missing pieces.

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Blake Carver <listslisnews.com> wrote:

> There's actually already a list of lists, it's just not
complete, and
> it's called "discussion groups"
>
> http://lisw
iki.org/wiki/Discussion_groups
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Walt Crawford
<waltcrawfordgmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Breaking out of lurker mode...
> >
> > There's a natural home for a list of library
lists--well, two of them
> > (that's the way things work).
> >
> > The obvious candidate is LISWiki
> > http://liswiki.org/
wiki/Main_Page
> > where someone just needs to start a page of
library lists and others
> need to
> > populate it.
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

There's actually already a list of lists, it's just not
complete, and
it's called "discussion groups"

http://lisw
iki.org/wiki/Discussion_groups


On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Walt Crawford
<waltcrawfordgmail.com> wrote:
> Breaking out of lurker mode...
>
> There's a natural home for a list of library
lists--well, two of them
> (that's the way things work).
>
> The obvious candidate is LISWiki
> http://liswiki.org/
wiki/Main_Page
> where someone just needs to start a page of library
lists and others need to
> populate it.
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/