Could library automation systems track evacuees?

(note: I responded directly to John F. without snips; this
version
snips)

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fereira [mailto:jaf30cornell.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:06 PM
To: JOHN MARQUETTE; web4libwebjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Could library automation systems
track evacuees?

>Although I have worked in a library for the past 10
years perhaps 
>it's the previous 20 years working with technologies in
the corporate 
>world 

<snip>

I was in IT too before I made my jump.  I can't see an
Oracle system
being set up overnight the way I could see a circ module go,
even if
both were extensively pre-tested.  We know the FBI system
can't do it,
every police department in the US seems to have a different
crime/criminal management system...and I don't know what
the Red Cross
does except to keep paper records and affix toe tags.

>Bar codes?   If you want to track the location of
individuals that 
>bracelet or necklaces should be GPS enabled.

GPS:  Heck, if I wanted to do it right I'd put RFID chips
on them.
Berkeley Public Library has put them in their collection (!)
and managed
to convince city residents that their rights weren't
violated.  I didn't
mention that (nor would I do it) because of the flame war it
would
begin.  I put my asbestos britches on when I clicked
"send" on that
message anyway...

>An understanding of Inventory tracking logistics is
hardly exclusive 
>to library "professionals".  In fact, most
commercial technology in 
>use in libraries is more likely create by computer
science
professionals.

UPS could step up to the plate as a public gesture, as could
FedEx or
any of the courier services.  Their IT systems are
sufficiently
decentralized that they could work, plus they all have
redundant
communications facilities (fiber, satellite, etc.).  I
haven't heard
anything from them though.

If NYPL can use Dynix Horizon for its ILS, it should work to
track
people fleeing the Gulf Coast.  I would focus my concerns on
transmission capacity and being able to work offline.

>While the idea is good in spirit I've seen too many
email messages 
>from students complaining about checking in books and
then received 

<snip>

Re: immigration - yeah, at least we wouldn't lose visa
holders and we
have the Unique Collection Agency to gently persuade people
to pay up
(or show up).

I would rather be like a book than like a parcel.  I would
like to know
that we'll be able to track people in the next Katrina. 
Hurricane
season starts Thursday.

John Marquette

I speak for myself, not my employer.
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Sounds like a bad idea to me. I wouldn't assume that
managing evacuations
and refugees is just like managing circulation becuase of
superficial
similarities. The devil is in the details.

In fact, I'd say that kind of hubris (thinking you know
more about how to
do things than you do) is what led to such poor management
in the first
place! The problems with the post-Katrina management
weren't primarily
_technological_, the lack of good software. Management
problems seldom
are.

After all, if managing evaucations/refugees is the same as
managing
libraries/circulation, would you want to put someone with
Red Cross (for
example) experience in charge of your library? I wouldn't.
Even LESS so, 
putting a circulation manager in charge of evacuations and
refugees. No
thank you.

If you can imagine writing software from scratch to do this
in a day, then
what's the point of retrofiting an ILS instead?  But I
think good software
would take more than this. The place to go for good software
for refugee
management is the same place to go for good management
skills for refugee
management---people who are experienced in refugee
management. The UNHCR
or whatever. What software do they use to keep track of
things? If they do
it without any special software at all, then maybe a lack
special software
isn't the primarily barrier here. And hacked ILS software
wouldn't be
'special software' anyway.

Sorry, just seems like a really bad idea to me.

--Jonathan

>
> (note: I responded directly to John F. without snips;
this version
> snips)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Fereira [mailto:jaf30cornell.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:06 PM
> To: JOHN MARQUETTE; web4libwebjunction.org
> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Could library automation systems
track evacuees?
>
>>Although I have worked in a library for the past 10
years perhaps
>>it's the previous 20 years working with
technologies in the corporate
>>world
>
> <snip>
>
> I was in IT too before I made my jump.  I can't see an
Oracle system
> being set up overnight the way I could see a circ
module go, even if
> both were extensively pre-tested.  We know the FBI
system can't do it,
> every police department in the US seems to have a
different
> crime/criminal management system...and I don't know
what the Red Cross
> does except to keep paper records and affix toe tags.
>
>>Bar codes?   If you want to track the location of
individuals that
>>bracelet or necklaces should be GPS enabled.
>
> GPS:  Heck, if I wanted to do it right I'd put RFID
chips on them.
> Berkeley Public Library has put them in their
collection (!) and managed
> to convince city residents that their rights weren't
violated.  I didn't
> mention that (nor would I do it) because of the flame
war it would
> begin.  I put my asbestos britches on when I clicked
"send" on that
> message anyway...
>
>>An understanding of Inventory tracking logistics is
hardly exclusive
>>to library "professionals".  In fact,
most commercial technology in
>>use in libraries is more likely create by computer
science
> professionals.
>
> UPS could step up to the plate as a public gesture, as
could FedEx or
> any of the courier services.  Their IT systems are
sufficiently
> decentralized that they could work, plus they all have
redundant
> communications facilities (fiber, satellite, etc.).  I
haven't heard
> anything from them though.
>
> If NYPL can use Dynix Horizon for its ILS, it should
work to track
> people fleeing the Gulf Coast.  I would focus my
concerns on
> transmission capacity and being able to work offline.
>
>>While the idea is good in spirit I've seen too many
email messages
>>from students complaining about checking in books
and then received
>
> <snip>
>
> Re: immigration - yeah, at least we wouldn't lose visa
holders and we
> have the Unique Collection Agency to gently persuade
people to pay up
> (or show up).
>
> I would rather be like a book than like a parcel.  I
would like to know
> that we'll be able to track people in the next
Katrina.  Hurricane
> season starts Thursday.
>
> John Marquette
>
> I speak for myself, not my employer.
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>


_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

An automated tracking system might be difficult to
implement.

As a former American Red Cross Disaster Associate, I know
how 
unorganized a disaster situation can be.

Never enough power, never enough computers, no access to
internet, cell 
phones don't work or no power to charge cell phones, land
lines don't 
work, no paper for printers...I can go on and on.

You can prepare as much as you can, but the fact is nothing
ever goes 
as it should, which is what a disaster is all about.  Paper
tracking is 
portable and works without power, which in large disasters
is often the 
case.  For some disasters, a national calling center is used
where 
people call in from the shelter or other location to start
the 
processing for assistance.

And to clarify from a previous e-mail......Although not
perfect, the 
non-profit American Red Cross organizes or provides service
for almost 
all human aspects of disasters...shelters, feeding, health
services, 
mental health services, telecommunication systems (mostly
ham radios), 
mass care, logistics, damage assessment...on a local and
national level.

So although a computerized tracking system at each shelter
would be 
terrific, in reality it might be the last service
implemented in a 
large disaster.

Sunshine

-- 
Sunshine J. Carter
Reference / Electronic Resources Librarian
University of Minnesota Duluth Library
416 Library Drive
Duluth, MN  55812

Phone: (218) 726-6693
Fax:  (218) 726-8019
scarterduluth.umn.edu




--On Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:49 PM -0700 Jonathan Rochkind 
<jonathandnil.net> wrote:

> Sounds like a bad idea to me.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Fereira [mailto:jaf30cornell.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:06 PM
>> To: JOHN MARQUETTE; web4libwebjunction.org
>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Could library automation
systems track
>> evacuees?
>>
>>> Although I have worked in a library for the
past 10 years perhaps
>>> it's the previous 20 years working with
technologies in the
>>> corporate world
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I was in IT too before I made my jump.  I can't
see an Oracle system
>> being set up overnight the way I could see a circ
module go, even if
>> both were extensively pre-tested.  We know the FBI
system can't do
>> it, every police department in the US seems to have
a different
>> crime/criminal management system...and I don't
know what the Red
>> Cross does except to keep paper records and affix
toe tags.
>>
>>> Bar codes?   If you want to track the location
of individuals that
>>> bracelet or necklaces should be GPS enabled.
>>
>> GPS:  Heck, if I wanted to do it right I'd put
RFID chips on them.
>> Berkeley Public Library has put them in their
collection (!) and
>> managed to convince city residents that their
rights weren't
>> violated.  I didn't mention that (nor would I do
it) because of the
>> flame war it would begin.  I put my asbestos
britches on when I
>> clicked "send" on that message
anyway...
>>
>>> An understanding of Inventory tracking
logistics is hardly exclusive
>>> to library "professionals".  In
fact, most commercial technology in
>>> use in libraries is more likely create by
computer science
>> professionals.
>>
>> UPS could step up to the plate as a public gesture,
as could FedEx or
>> any of the courier services.  Their IT systems are
sufficiently
>> decentralized that they could work, plus they all
have redundant
>> communications facilities (fiber, satellite, etc.).
 I haven't heard
>> anything from them though.
>>
>> If NYPL can use Dynix Horizon for its ILS, it
should work to track
>> people fleeing the Gulf Coast.  I would focus my
concerns on
>> transmission capacity and being able to work
offline.
>>
>>> While the idea is good in spirit I've seen too
many email messages
>>> from students complaining about checking in
books and then received
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Re: immigration - yeah, at least we wouldn't lose
visa holders and we
>> have the Unique Collection Agency to gently
persuade people to pay up
>> (or show up).
>>
>> I would rather be like a book than like a parcel. 
I would like to
>> know that we'll be able to track people in the
next Katrina.
>> Hurricane season starts Thursday.
>>
>> John Marquette
>>
>> I speak for myself, not my employer.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4libwebjunction.org
>> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/

Sunshine, thank you so much for this experienced
point-of-view. I have 
found myself (as a previously bleeding edge futuring tech
type) in the 
ironic position of arguing for preserving low-tech
collections of critical 
information as part of disaster planning and preparedness. I
would 
encourage libraries to work with their communities on
exercises to 
simulate disaster response scenarios, and also to keep
no-power 
no-computer situations in mind as they select and weed
electronic and 
print resources for their collections.

  -- Patricia Anderson, pfaumich.edu

On Wed, 31 May 2006, Sunshine Jacinda Carter wrote:

> An automated tracking system might be difficult to
implement.
>
> As a former American Red Cross Disaster Associate, I
know how unorganized a 
> disaster situation can be.
>
> Never enough power, never enough computers, no access
to internet, cell 
> phones don't work or no power to charge cell phones,
land lines don't work, 
> no paper for printers...I can go on and on.
>
> You can prepare as much as you can, but the fact is
nothing ever goes as it 
> should, which is what a disaster is all about.  Paper
tracking is portable 
> and works without power, which in large disasters is
often the case.  For 
> some disasters, a national calling center is used where
people call in from 
> the shelter or other location to start the processing
for assistance.
>
> And to clarify from a previous e-mail......Although not
perfect, the 
> non-profit American Red Cross organizes or provides
service for almost all 
> human aspects of disasters...shelters, feeding, health
services, mental 
> health services, telecommunication systems (mostly ham
radios), mass care, 
> logistics, damage assessment...on a local and national
level.
>
> So although a computerized tracking system at each
shelter would be terrific, 
> in reality it might be the last service implemented in
a large disaster.
>
> Sunshine
>
> -- 
> Sunshine J. Carter
> Reference / Electronic Resources Librarian
> University of Minnesota Duluth Library
> 416 Library Drive
> Duluth, MN  55812
>
> Phone: (218) 726-6693
> Fax:  (218) 726-8019
> scarterduluth.umn.edu
>
>
>
>
> --On Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:49 PM -0700 Jonathan
Rochkind 
> <jonathandnil.net> wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a bad idea to me.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Fereira [mailto:jaf30cornell.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:06 PM
>>> To: JOHN MARQUETTE; web4libwebjunction.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Could library automation
systems track
>>> evacuees?
>>> 
>>>> Although I have worked in a library for the
past 10 years perhaps
>>>> it's the previous 20 years working with
technologies in the
>>>> corporate world
>>> 
>>> <snip>
>>> 
>>> I was in IT too before I made my jump.  I
can't see an Oracle system
>>> being set up overnight the way I could see a
circ module go, even if
>>> both were extensively pre-tested.  We know the
FBI system can't do
>>> it, every police department in the US seems to
have a different
>>> crime/criminal management system...and I don't
know what the Red
>>> Cross does except to keep paper records and
affix toe tags.
>>> 
>>>> Bar codes?   If you want to track the
location of individuals that
>>>> bracelet or necklaces should be GPS
enabled.
>>> 
>>> GPS:  Heck, if I wanted to do it right I'd put
RFID chips on them.
>>> Berkeley Public Library has put them in their
collection (!) and
>>> managed to convince city residents that their
rights weren't
>>> violated.  I didn't mention that (nor would I
do it) because of the
>>> flame war it would begin.  I put my asbestos
britches on when I
>>> clicked "send" on that message
anyway...
>>> 
>>>> An understanding of Inventory tracking
logistics is hardly exclusive
>>>> to library "professionals".  In
fact, most commercial technology in
>>>> use in libraries is more likely create by
computer science
>>> professionals.
>>> 
>>> UPS could step up to the plate as a public
gesture, as could FedEx or
>>> any of the courier services.  Their IT systems
are sufficiently
>>> decentralized that they could work, plus they
all have redundant
>>> communications facilities (fiber, satellite,
etc.).  I haven't heard
>>> anything from them though.
>>> 
>>> If NYPL can use Dynix Horizon for its ILS, it
should work to track
>>> people fleeing the Gulf Coast.  I would focus
my concerns on
>>> transmission capacity and being able to work
offline.
>>> 
>>>> While the idea is good in spirit I've seen
too many email messages
>>>> from students complaining about checking in
books and then received
>>> 
>>> <snip>
>>> 
>>> Re: immigration - yeah, at least we wouldn't
lose visa holders and we
>>> have the Unique Collection Agency to gently
persuade people to pay up
>>> (or show up).
>>> 
>>> I would rather be like a book than like a
parcel.  I would like to
>>> know that we'll be able to track people in the
next Katrina.
>>> Hurricane season starts Thursday.
>>> 
>>> John Marquette
>>> 
>>> I speak for myself, not my employer.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Web4lib mailing list
>>> Web4libwebjunction.org
>>> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Web4lib mailing list
>> Web4libwebjunction.org
>> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web4lib mailing list
> Web4libwebjunction.org
> http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Web4lib mailing list
Web4libwebjunction.org
http://lists.we
bjunction.org/web4lib/