Andreas' Blog: openSUSE and Microsoft

	I see that Distrowatch, thinks that opensuse is still ok to
use, until the
employees who work on Linux at Novell revolt over the
revolting deal Novell made
with Microsoft.  ---Jim


<http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/
11/opensuse-and-microsoft.html>

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Look, I don't comprehend that the 'deal' was
revolting.

I didn't see any complaints from you in 2005, when
Microsoft finally paid for royalties on BSD and Linux
to use TCP/IP stacks and some scripts and functions
that were developed by or under the auspices of: The
Regents of California; Berkeley UC; The Regents of
Swansea; and other developers!

That deal, a settlement of 5 major infringement
lawsuits won by the plaintiffs, was over $100 million,
just for TCP/IP and other necessary parts, that the
convicted Pirate and Felon, Microsoft Corporation, had
required since 1994 and up through at least 2010!

Commercial corporations such as Novell, or Suse, or
Oracle and Microsoft have needs, control markets, and
do deals.  I do not see that it will affect the
grassroots movement of the FOSS folks.

Microsoft has a track record of embracing and then
extinguishing, developers and producers, but, I fear
the huge portfolio of IBM much more, in the Corporate
world.

I do not see how that 'deal' can affect several
hundred  Free Linux Distributions, and would
appreciate your explanation for those of us who are
curious.  



--- Jim Worrest <jworresthuskeraccess.com> wrote:

> 	I see that Distrowatch, thinks that opensuse is
> still ok to use, until the
> employees who work on Linux at Novell revolt over
> the revolting deal Novell made
> with Microsoft.  ---Jim
> 
> 
>
<http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/
11/opensuse-and-microsoft.html>
> 
> ----
> Husker Linux Users Group mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send a message to
> huskerlug-requestfreelists.org
> with a subject of UNSUBSCRIBE
> 
> 
> 


--
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#65411 http://lugww.counter.li.o
rg  http://knopper.net/knoppix
 http://distrowatch.com  http://livecdlist.com   http://sourceforge.net
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On Monday 13 November 2006 8:00 am, Jim Worrest wrote:
> 	I see that Distrowatch, thinks that opensuse is still
ok to use, until the
> employees who work on Linux at Novell revolt over the
revolting deal Novell
> made with Microsoft.  ---Jim

If you set the time period for 7 days and refresh you'll see
that SUSE is 
dropping like a rock.

>
>
> <http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/
11/opensuse-and-microsoft.html>
>

This is an outrageous statement by one who should know
better, an OpenSUSE 
developer: Andreas Jaeger.     He's sticking his head in the
sand, or some 
other dark place, and it's probably because he believes that
this IP TRAP by 
Microsoft will FORCE SUSE into the #1 Linux distro spot. 
How?  Because HE 
KNOIWS that Microsoft's "promise" not to sue SUSE
users deliberately implies 
that users of OTHER Linux distros are under threat of
lawsuits.   The obvious 
purpose for this agreement is to FORCE as many
developers/users to SUSE as 
are willing to be scared into making the move.  

However, the responses to his blog are shining a light on
his misstatements, 
gloss overs and omissions.  Here is one:


"Novell makes no admission that its Linux and open
source offerings infringe 
on any other parties' patents."


Now a closer look at Microsoft's General Counsel
Branessto...

"We addressed the proprietary issues through the net
up-front payment. The 
open-source we addressed through the percentage of
revenue."


The percentage of revenue to which Branessto is talking here
is Novell's 
payment to M$ so that M$ will not sue any SUSE customers
because of some 
patent infringements.

Wait. Didn't we just read that no such infringements exist?
If Novell is 
paying Microsoft a percentage of its revenue from sales of
SUSE Linux as part 
of a covenant from Microsoft not to sue SUSE customers for
patent 
infringement in open source code, then is this not a tacit
admission that 
Novell's Linux and open source offerings infringe on other
parties' patents, 
particularly Microsoft's patents? How can one interpret this
any other way? 
Why would Novell pay Microsoft not to sue its customers over
patent 
infringements Novell says do not exist?

I see 2 answers to this...

1) There is no M$ patent infringement in SUSE and/or Linux.
Novell is just 
spreading FUD here.

2) There *are* some patent infringements in Novell's SUSE
product and Novell 
is refusing to admit it in its FAQ

Lets us see what Section 7 of the GPL has to say about that

If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of
patent infringement 
or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues),
conditions are 
imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or
otherwise) that 
contradict the conditions of this License, they do not
excuse you from the 
conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as
to satisfy 
simultaneously your obligations under this License and any
other pertinent 
obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute
the Program at all. 
For example, if a patent license would not permit
royalty-free redistribution 
of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or
indirectly through 
you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this
License would be to 
refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.


Or, in other words just like Eben Moglen, attorney of the
FSF explains it

"If you make an agreement which requires you to pay a
royalty to anybody for 
the right to distribute GPL software, you may not distribute
it under the 
GPL."


Obviously, the GPL is the reason why Novell must go on
record with the 
assertion that neither Linux nor its other open source
offerings infringe 
upon any Microsoft patents. To say otherwise would be to
admit Novell is 
violating the GPL.

However, if its assertions were true, there would be no
reason to pay 
Microsoft royalties on the sales of Linux and open source
products in order 
to protect its customers from patent infringement lawsuits.
Here, Novell's 
actions speak much louder than its empty words. No,
Branessto's words speak 
even louder, because his statement is pretty clear that
Novell is paying 
royalties to Microsoft in order to prevent Microsoft from
suing its 
customers. Once again, we must conclude that one of the two
explanations 
above must be true. Only in this case, either Novell is
paying Microsoft FUD 
money, or Novell is violating the GPL.

For five full years, Microsoft says it will promote SUSE.
For five years, 
Novell will guarantee its customers immunity to patent
lawsuits by Microsoft.

What happens after the five years pass? I seem to recall
Microsoft made five 
year (or similar length) deals with Sybase, Symantec, Corel,
Borland, Citrix, 
and other companies that thrived before the deals only to be
reduced to 
insignificant gnats afterward. All of these deals involved
giving the company 
a bundle of money and promising them they'd prosper. All of
these companys 
were promptly discarded as partners once Microsoft gained
what it needed to 
eliminate them as serious competition.

Microsoft has once again suckered a company. It dangled
pretty, shiny 
short-term gains in front of Novell/SUSE while, at worst,
planning their 
long-term extinction, at best, planning to use the success
of Novell/SUSE to 
bleed its customer base. If Novell/SUSE becomes the king of
Linux in five 
years, you can bet Microsoft will send its thugs over to
Novell and raise 
its "no-sue covenant" protection payments through
the roof. I see no reason 
to think Microsoft has morphed into a kinder gentler thug.

Bye, bye SUSE, it was a nice ride with you but from now on
it's all going down

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	It seems that Samba made a good reply about this deal
between Novell and Microsoft:

h
ttp://news.samba.org/announcements/team_to_novell/

I'm more than happy to see Microsoft having to pay out for
what they have
grabbed.  Of course, it's the consumer still stuck with the
tab, unless they go
to Linux or BSD.   Two
reasons I like Linux.  I have disliked Bill Gates
business practices and policies before there was an
Internet, before the PC,
when he wanted to charge royalties for everything, e.g.,
programs made with
Microsoft FORTRAN. He wanted to rent programs and not sale
them.  Borland helped
make computer software affordable, though Microsoft seem to
have done them in
years ago. The other reason Linux is affordable, i.e., FREE.

Anyway, the 2005 payment by Microsoft went by me unnoticed,
but any time
Microsoft gets it comeuppance, GOOD.  I can only hope that
the Europeans crack
down on M$ as a monopoly.  --Jim

Patrick wrote:
> Look, I don't comprehend that the 'deal' was
> revolting.
> 
> I didn't see any complaints from you in 2005, when
> Microsoft finally paid for royalties on BSD and Linux
> to use TCP/IP stacks and some scripts and functions
> that were developed by or under the auspices of: The
> Regents of California; Berkeley UC; The Regents of
> Swansea; and other developers!
> 
> That deal, a settlement of 5 major infringement
> lawsuits won by the plaintiffs, was over $100 million,
> just for TCP/IP and other necessary parts, that the
> convicted Pirate and Felon, Microsoft Corporation, had
> required since 1994 and up through at least 2010!
> 
> Commercial corporations such as Novell, or Suse, or
> Oracle and Microsoft have needs, control markets, and
> do deals.  I do not see that it will affect the
> grassroots movement of the FOSS folks.
> 
> Microsoft has a track record of embracing and then
> extinguishing, developers and producers,

Yeah, ain't that the truth. :-(
 but, I fear
> the huge portfolio of IBM much more, in the Corporate
> world.

It seems to me that IBM has been much more helpful
to the Linux world than M$ has ever been.
> 
> I do not see how that 'deal' can affect several
> hundred  Free Linux Distributions, and would
> appreciate your explanation for those of us who are
> curious.  
> 
> 
> 
> --- Jim Worrest <jworresthuskeraccess.com> wrote:
> 
>> 	I see that Distrowatch, thinks that opensuse is
>> still ok to use, until the
>> employees who work on Linux at Novell revolt over
>> the revolting deal Novell made
>> with Microsoft.  ---Jim
>>
>>
>>
> <http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/
11/opensuse-and-microsoft.html>
>> ----
>> Husker Linux Users Group mailing list
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to
>> huskerlug-requestfreelists.org
>> with a subject of UNSUBSCRIBE
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> --
> P. Berry, USAF (Retired) http://www.af.mil  Linux User
#65411 http://lugww.counter.li.o
rg  http://knopper.net/knoppix
 http://distrowatch.com  http://livecdlist.com   http://sourceforge.net
> http://yolinux.com  http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net
> 
> 
>  
>
____________________________________________________________
________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
> http://new.mail.yahoo.com
> 
> ----
> Husker Linux Users Group mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send a message to huskerlug-requestfreelists.org
> with a subject of UNSUBSCRIBE
> 
> 
> 

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	Whoever said that Novell was such a great company?  I think
they did more harm
than good when they took over SuSE.  I think the quality of
distribution went
down when they got their hands on it.  Novell seems to have
killed off every
company they took over -- without Microsoft's help. SuSE is
as good as it is in
spite of Novell, not because of it. It was bad to see what
happened to Borland
and to Corel, but Novell, is one company I won't shed any
tears over.  ---Jim

GreyGeek wrote:
> On Monday 13 November 2006 8:00 am, Jim Worrest wrote:
>> 	I see that Distrowatch, thinks that opensuse is
still ok to use, until the
>> employees who work on Linux at Novell revolt over
the revolting deal Novell
>> made with Microsoft.  ---Jim
> 
> If you set the time period for 7 days and refresh
you'll see that SUSE is 
> dropping like a rock.
> 
>>
>> <http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/
11/opensuse-and-microsoft.html>
>>
> 
> This is an outrageous statement by one who should know
better, an OpenSUSE 
> developer: Andreas Jaeger.     He's sticking his head
in the sand, or some 
> other dark place, and it's probably because he believes
that this IP TRAP by 
> Microsoft will FORCE SUSE into the #1 Linux distro
spot.  How?  Because HE 
> KNOIWS that Microsoft's "promise" not to sue
SUSE users deliberately implies 
> that users of OTHER Linux distros are under threat of
lawsuits.   The obvious 
> purpose for this agreement is to FORCE as many
developers/users to SUSE as 
> are willing to be scared into making the move.  
> 
> However, the responses to his blog are shining a light
on his misstatements, 
> gloss overs and omissions.  Here is one:
> 
> 
> "Novell makes no admission that its Linux and open
source offerings infringe 
> on any other parties' patents."
> 
> 
> Now a closer look at Microsoft's General Counsel
Branessto...
> 
> "We addressed the proprietary issues through the
net up-front payment. The 
> open-source we addressed through the percentage of
revenue."
> 
> 
> The percentage of revenue to which Branessto is talking
here is Novell's 
> payment to M$ so that M$ will not sue any SUSE
customers because of some 
> patent infringements.
> 
> Wait. Didn't we just read that no such infringements
exist? If Novell is 
> paying Microsoft a percentage of its revenue from sales
of SUSE Linux as part 
> of a covenant from Microsoft not to sue SUSE customers
for patent 
> infringement in open source code, then is this not a
tacit admission that 
> Novell's Linux and open source offerings infringe on
other parties' patents, 
> particularly Microsoft's patents? How can one interpret
this any other way? 
> Why would Novell pay Microsoft not to sue its customers
over patent 
> infringements Novell says do not exist?
> 
> I see 2 answers to this...
> 
> 1) There is no M$ patent infringement in SUSE and/or
Linux. Novell is just 
> spreading FUD here.
> 
> 2) There *are* some patent infringements in Novell's
SUSE product and Novell 
> is refusing to admit it in its FAQ
> 
> Lets us see what Section 7 of the GPL has to say about
that
> 
> If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation
of patent infringement 
> or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues),
conditions are 
> imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or
otherwise) that 
> contradict the conditions of this License, they do not
excuse you from the 
> conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so
as to satisfy 
> simultaneously your obligations under this License and
any other pertinent 
> obligations, then as a consequence you may not
distribute the Program at all. 
> For example, if a patent license would not permit
royalty-free redistribution 
> of the Program by all those who receive copies directly
or indirectly through 
> you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and
this License would be to 
> refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
> 
> 
> Or, in other words just like Eben Moglen, attorney of
the FSF explains it
> 
> "If you make an agreement which requires you to
pay a royalty to anybody for 
> the right to distribute GPL software, you may not
distribute it under the 
> GPL."
> 
> 
> Obviously, the GPL is the reason why Novell must go on
record with the 
> assertion that neither Linux nor its other open source
offerings infringe 
> upon any Microsoft patents. To say otherwise would be
to admit Novell is 
> violating the GPL.
> 
> However, if its assertions were true, there would be no
reason to pay 
> Microsoft royalties on the sales of Linux and open
source products in order 
> to protect its customers from patent infringement
lawsuits. Here, Novell's 
> actions speak much louder than its empty words. No,
Branessto's words speak 
> even louder, because his statement is pretty clear that
Novell is paying 
> royalties to Microsoft in order to prevent Microsoft
from suing its 
> customers. Once again, we must conclude that one of the
two explanations 
> above must be true. Only in this case, either Novell is
paying Microsoft FUD 
> money, or Novell is violating the GPL.
> 
> For five full years, Microsoft says it will promote
SUSE. For five years, 
> Novell will guarantee its customers immunity to patent
lawsuits by Microsoft.
> 
> What happens after the five years pass? I seem to
recall Microsoft made five 
> year (or similar length) deals with Sybase, Symantec,
Corel, Borland, Citrix, 
> and other companies that thrived before the deals only
to be reduced to 
> insignificant gnats afterward. All of these deals
involved giving the company 
> a bundle of money and promising them they'd prosper.
All of these companys 
> were promptly discarded as partners once Microsoft
gained what it needed to 
> eliminate them as serious competition.
> 
> Microsoft has once again suckered a company. It dangled
pretty, shiny 
> short-term gains in front of Novell/SUSE while, at
worst, planning their 
> long-term extinction, at best, planning to use the
success of Novell/SUSE to 
> bleed its customer base. If Novell/SUSE becomes the
king of Linux in five 
> years, you can bet Microsoft will send its thugs over
to Novell and raise 
> its "no-sue covenant" protection payments
through the roof. I see no reason 
> to think Microsoft has morphed into a kinder gentler
thug.
> 
> Bye, bye SUSE, it was a nice ride with you but from now
on it's all going down
> 
> ----
> Husker Linux Users Group mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send a message to huskerlug-requestfreelists.org
> with a subject of UNSUBSCRIBE
> 
> 
> 

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