best cheap mic(s) for acoustic / vocal recording?

On 4/11/07, Arnold Krille <arnoldarnoldarts.de> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Mike Taht:
> > I am selling my house deep in the santa cruz
mountains, and I think the
> > things I'm going to miss most is the birdsong and
other sounds of the
> > wilderness around me. So, I keep thinking, I
should pick up a good mic
> soon
> > (stereo mic, or matched pair) - either buy,
borrow, or rent for a few days
> > - and record it all, so I can recreate the
ambiance and memories of this
> > place one day in the future.
>
> I bought the Studio Projects C4 (Matched Pair) which
might not be the best
> but
> at least good for the price. You could also go for a
pair of AKG C1000 which
> cost about double.
>
> My C4s are good (ie. I used them) for environmental
recordings (I conserved
> the noise of outside of my old flat in the middle of
the city), live
> recordings of concerts, drum overheads and micing of
acoustic instruments.
> They have two kinds of mic capsules to provide
omni-directional and cardioid
> characteristics. The (in my edition) shipped
stereo-boom(?) is a bit to
> short
> to get the official 17,5cm for env-recordings but its
still usable...
>
> BTW: http://ww
w.studioprojectsusa.com/index.html lists the C4 with
504€, I
> got
> mine (new) for ~300€...
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Arnold
>
> --
> visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
> ---
> Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your
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> me
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Or ask your
> administrator to do so...
>

Thread hijack so i changed the name... I want to record
acoustic
guitar and vocals. Price limit is < AUD$300 so i'm
thinking of 2
behringer c-2's ($75!!) and stereo mic pre or a single SM
Pro mic 1
condenser and pre. Are cheap condensers better than sm57/58
of the
same price? Any recommendations?

Loki
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mercoledì, 11 aprile 2007 alle 19:12:40, Loki Davison ha
scritto:
> On 4/11/07, Arnold Krille <arnoldarnoldarts.de> wrote:
> >Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Mike Taht:
> >> I am selling my house deep in the santa cruz
mountains, and I think 
> >the
> >> things I'm going to miss most is the birdsong
and other sounds of the
> >> wilderness around me. So, I keep thinking, I
should pick up a good 
> >mic
> >soon
> >> (stereo mic, or matched pair) - either buy,
borrow, or rent for a 
> >few days
> >> - and record it all, so I can recreate the
ambiance and memories of 
> >this
> >> place one day in the future.
> >
> >I bought the Studio Projects C4 (Matched Pair)
which might not be the 
> >best
> >but
> >at least good for the price. You could also go for
a pair of AKG C1000 
> >which
> >cost about double.
> >
> >My C4s are good (ie. I used them) for environmental
recordings (I 
> >conserved
> >the noise of outside of my old flat in the middle
of the city), live
> >recordings of concerts, drum overheads and micing
of acoustic 
> >instruments.
> >They have two kinds of mic capsules to provide
omni-directional and 
> >cardioid
> >characteristics. The (in my edition) shipped
stereo-boom(?) is a bit to
> >short
> >to get the official 17,5cm for env-recordings but
its still usable...
> >
> >BTW: http://ww
w.studioprojectsusa.com/index.html lists the C4 with 
> >504?, I
> >got
> >mine (new) for ~300?...
> >
> >Have a nice day,
> >
> >Arnold
> >
> >--
> >visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
> >---
> >Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into
your ~/.signature and 
> >send
> >me
> >to all your contacts.
> >After a month or so log in as root and do a rm /
-rf. Or ask your
> >administrator to do so...
> >
> 
> Thread hijack so i changed the name... I want to record
acoustic
> guitar and vocals. Price limit is < AUD$300 so i'm
thinking of 2
> behringer c-2's ($75!!) and stereo mic pre or a single
SM Pro mic 1
> condenser and pre. Are cheap condensers better than
sm57/58 of the
> same price? Any recommendations?

I like oktava microphones. Quite cheap but better than
chinese
made microphones (samson, behringer, etc...):
http://oktava-online.com/

I have a mk219, a mk220 and a matched pair of mk012 (this is
a bit
expensive if you want all the capsules)

The mk219 I bought on ebay for 56 EUR, and it's a really
good mic.

There's also a guy who make modified versions of those mics,
but the
price doubles (at least):

http://oktavamod.com/
 
> Loki

HTH
Ciao
-- 
Emiliano Grilli
Linux user #209089 
http://www.emillo.net
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Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Loki Davison:
> Thread hijack so i changed the name... I want to record
acoustic
> guitar and vocals. Price limit is < AUD$300 so i'm
thinking of 2
> behringer c-2's ($75!!) and stereo mic pre or a single
SM Pro mic 1
> condenser and pre. Are cheap condensers better than
sm57/58 of the
> same price? Any recommendations?

Since some time I do have a strong urge not to buy
behringer. They make same 
good stuff. And they are certainly worth the price. But
nothing more...
And while the headphone-amp of behringer is kind of a
standard, the mics are 
most probably some cheap imitations (like there mixers).

My band-leader owns a Tube-Mic (a Fame from musicstore)
which was cheap (ie. 
in the price-range you mentioned) but sounds warmer than my
C4s and so we use 
it for vocals and guitar. Both for acoustic guitar and for
electric-guitar, 
altough the guitarist would be satisfied to directly plug in
I think going 
through his (not so high-quality) amp and the tube-mic adds
some great value 
to the signal.

I wouldn't go for cheap condensors (<100€ per part).

If you want to use your mic(s) on stage too, I would go for
Shure SM58 or even 
better Shure Beta58 (or 57 for instruments-only). The later
one is also 
usable in studio for recording percussions.

For live the SM57 can be substituted by thomann the.mic mb75
if you are on a 
budget...

Have a nice day,

Arnold
-- 
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
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Arnold Krille wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Loki Davison:
>> Thread hijack so i changed the name... I want to
record acoustic
>> guitar and vocals. Price limit is < AUD$300 so
i'm thinking of 2
>> behringer c-2's ($75!!) and stereo mic pre or a
single SM Pro mic 1
>> condenser and pre.

you are talking about the "most important" part of
your studio:
 mic+preamp! - you'll want a compressor, too - but not for
$300.

aah don't forget the to add the budget for a Spider and
Popper-Stopper,
but a nylon and some wire does the trick, too ;)

>> Are cheap condensers better than sm57/58 of the
>> same price? Any recommendations?

for acoustic guitar probably yes. - but a sm58 always comes
in handy as
does a sm57. ;)

i suggest to get one mid-class Mic eg. AGK200 or AT4033  and
 a (mono)
tube-preamp  (eg. presonus).

unless it's just s tmp. hobby I suggest you rob your piggy
bank..  over
here, 500 euro seems to be the pedestal for a basic good
home recording.
 2000 for a proper. 12000 to start a studio...  - a Shure is
always a
good tentative solution..

when recording acoustic guitar place the condenser in front
of the it
(does not need to be close)  but put the SM58 close to the
neck-end. (a
sm57 is even better)

If your guitar has a built-in pick up, record it as well.
adding *a
little* of those other mics will greatly improve the
ambience of many
home- recordings!

> Since some time I do have a strong urge not to buy
behringer. They make same 
> good stuff. And they are certainly worth the price. But
nothing more...
> And while the headphone-amp of behringer is kind of a
standard, the mics are 
> most probably some cheap imitations (like there
mixers).
> 
> My band-leader owns a Tube-Mic (a Fame from musicstore)
which was cheap (ie. 
> in the price-range you mentioned) but sounds warmer
than my C4s and so we use 
> it for vocals and guitar. Both for acoustic guitar and
for electric-guitar, 
> altough the guitarist would be satisfied to directly
plug in I think going 
> through his (not so high-quality) amp and the tube-mic
adds some great value 
> to the signal.

i can second that. - but there's some magic in high-end
analog audio
equipment that is just unbeatable...

> I wouldn't go for cheap condensors (<100� per
part).

ack. you will regret it. - there are a few cheap but good
condenser-mics
though. even below 30 euro. Some of them beat
"brand-name" products in
the 100 euro range...

> If you want to use your mic(s) on stage too, I would go
for Shure SM58 or even 
> better Shure Beta58 (or 57 for instruments-only). The
later one is also 
> usable in studio for recording percussions.
> 
> For live the SM57 can be substituted by thomann the.mic
mb75 if you are on a 
> budget...
> 
> Have a nice day,
ditto,
robin

> Arnold
> 
>
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Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Robin Gareus:
> If your guitar has a built-in pick up, record it as
well. adding *a
> little* of those other mics will greatly improve the
ambience of many
> home- recordings!

I tried that on the first track of guitar we recorded. The
line-signal is very 
good for stage-use but in the studio (ie. my living room)
compared to mic 
signals from the tube-mic or one of my condensors its just
noisy crap...
My next step was to use the condensor at the hole in the
corpse with 30-40cm 
distance and the tube-mic at the neck.
But after some more track we went for just the tube-mic
positioned at 30-40cm 
distance from the point where the corpse goes into the neck
and aimed a bit 
at the hole. Gives a wonderful sound with concert acoustics
and western 
acoustics (ovation and others)...

Arnold

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> My next step was to use the condensor at the hole in
the corpse with 30-40cm
> distance and the tube-mic at the neck.
> But after some more track we went for just the tube-mic
positioned at 30-40cm
> distance from the point where the corpse goes into the
neck and aimed a bit
> at the hole.

 And for those of you who don't feel like shoving a corpse
into your
 precious accoustic (perhaps felling a bit worried about
blood and
 other fluids affecting the tone and/or second hand value,
not to mention
 any legal aspects of having a corpse lying around) , I'm
sure Arnold
 meant "body" and nothing else 

 I guess in Germany it's called "körper". Does
that mean corpse as well
 as body ?

 - Peder
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On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 01:49:30PM +0200, Peder Hedlund
wrote:
> > My next step was to use the condensor at the hole
in the corpse with 30-40cm
> > distance and the tube-mic at the neck.
> > But after some more track we went for just the
tube-mic positioned at 30-40cm
> > distance from the point where the corpse goes into
the neck and aimed a bit
> > at the hole.
> 
>  And for those of you who don't feel like shoving a
corpse into your
>  precious accoustic (perhaps felling a bit worried
about blood and
>  other fluids affecting the tone and/or second hand
value, not to mention
>  any legal aspects of having a corpse lying around) ,
I'm sure Arnold
>  meant "body" and nothing else 
> 
>  I guess in Germany it's called "körper".
Does that mean corpse as well
>  as body ?
> 
>  - Peder

No it does not, it's only body. I guess Arnold was thinking
of "Korpus"
("corpus" in english).

Burkhard
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>  I guess in Germany it's called "k??rper".
Does that mean corpse as well
>  as body ?

The german ``Koerper'' can mean nearly everything that's
3-dimensional, but a
dead human body, so a corpse, is usually called ``Leiche''

	Thomas
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Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Burkhard Ritter:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 01:49:30PM +0200, Peder Hedlund
wrote:
> > > My next step was to use the condensor at the
hole in the corpse with
> > > 30-40cm distance and the tube-mic at the
neck.
> > > But after some more track we went for just
the tube-mic positioned at
> > > 30-40cm distance from the point where the
corpse goes into the neck and
> > > aimed a bit at the hole.
> >  And for those of you who don't feel like shoving
a corpse into your
> >  precious accoustic (perhaps felling a bit worried
about blood and
> >  other fluids affecting the tone and/or second
hand value, not to mention
> >  any legal aspects of having a corpse lying
around) , I'm sure Arnold
> >  meant "body" and nothing else 
> >  I guess in Germany it's called
"körper". Does that mean corpse as well
> >  as body ?
> No it does not, it's only body. I guess Arnold was
thinking of "Korpus"
> ("corpus" in english).

Oh, yeah, I mean the body of the guitar. You don't have to
kill your 
instrument or the player...

Arnold

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Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Robin Gareus:
> Arnold Krille wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 schrieb Robin Gareus:
> >> If your guitar has a built-in pick up, record
it as well. adding *a
> >> little* of those other mics will greatly
improve the ambience of many
> >> home- recordings!
> > I tried that on the first track of guitar we
recorded. The line-signal is
> > very good for stage-use but in the studio (ie. my
living room) compared
> > to mic signals from the tube-mic or one of my
condensors its just noisy
> > crap...
> wow you are fast!  or were you referring to past
recordings?

I refer to the first recordings of our CD. And while
diskspace is cheap, it is 
not that easy to edit two tracks with identical contents in
the same steps in 
ardour. So I decided to ditch the second (and third)
opinion. Well, back than 
I only had two inputs so it was only the second opinion I
ditched. Now, some 
months later I have 8 channels at my command but still I
prefer the simple 
approach.

> I use compressors them *before* digitizing; but that's
just because my
> pre-amp & analog equipment is better than the cheap
DAC. - for a
> high-end studio equipment pre-recording compression is
not an issue.

Hehe, I have to compress after ADC because A) I don't have
analog compressors 
(to pricey), B) my ADCs are of presonus-quality and C) I
think the SC4 from 
Steve Harris is a rather good compressor.
Only reason for me to get a compressor would be limiting
before ADC to not 
overshoot digital range. But I will buy another microphone
before that. 

/me should get back to work...

Arnold

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