Softproof questions

Hi,

I know that's a bit OT, but I hope you bear with me.

I think here's a good start to ask. I'm comparing several
solutions to
convert files with ICC profiles for the purpose of applying
printer
profiles and to create files for softproof use.

I'm open for all suggestions and so far I have tried the
Argyll CLI
cctiff and lcms tifficc and Photoline and Photoshop.

I found _significant_ differences between all the programs.
Special
if/how white paper simulation is done is totally different.

1) lcms and Argyll don't seem to allow a paper simulation,
when I use
relative or perceptual intent. Is this correct? That would
be
interesting when I want to convert a file for softproof
purposes.

2) Do you know of other (if possible free) programs which
would allow
a softproof -- CLI solutions are also interesting ?

3) OT: The Adobe CMM is now available as a download. Is
there an
option to use the CMM to convert files _without_ Photoshop,
for
example with a CL interface?

4) The softproof option of tifficc did not work for me. Then
I got no
file output. Can someone give me a complete working
example?

Looking forward your ideas and answers!

Best regards
Peter


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On Thursday 14 June 2007 12:23, Peter Karp wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know that's a bit OT, but I hope you bear with me.
>
> I think here's a good start to ask. I'm comparing
several solutions to
> convert files with ICC profiles for the purpose of
applying printer
> profiles and to create files for softproof use.
>
> I'm open for all suggestions and so far I have tried
the Argyll CLI
> cctiff and lcms tifficc and Photoline and Photoshop.
>
> I found _significant_ differences between all the
programs. Special
> if/how white paper simulation is done is totally
different.
>
> 1) lcms and Argyll don't seem to allow a paper
simulation, when I use
> relative or perceptual intent. Is this correct? That
would be
> interesting when I want to convert a file for softproof
purposes.
>
> 2) Do you know of other (if possible free) programs
which would allow
> a softproof -- CLI solutions are also interesting ?

There is a GIMP plugin called seperate+ that uses lcms to
implement 
softproofing.  I beleive that it has paper white simulation
and it is claimed 
that current version give results that are very much like
using the same 
settings in photoshop.   At the very least you could look at
the code to see 
ow this is being done.

>
> 3) OT: The Adobe CMM is now available as a download. Is
there an
> option to use the CMM to convert files _without_
Photoshop, for
> example with a CL interface?
>
> 4) The softproof option of tifficc did not work for me.
Then I got no
> file output. Can someone give me a complete working
example?
>
> Looking forward your ideas and answers!
>
> Best regards
> Peter
>
>
>
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> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2
express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get
it now.
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Am 14.06.07, 21:23 +0200 schrieb Peter Karp:

> I think here's a good start to ask. I'm comparing
several solutions to
> convert files with ICC profiles for the purpose of
applying printer
> profiles and to create files for softproof use.
> 
> I'm open for all suggestions and so far I have tried
the Argyll CLI
> cctiff and lcms tifficc and Photoline and Photoshop.
> 
> I found _significant_ differences between all the
programs. Special
> if/how white paper simulation is done is totally
different.

Scaling of gamuts can be done in various ways. Do not wonder
about the 
different results. At least the naming should be consitent.

> 1) lcms and Argyll don't seem to allow a paper
simulation, when I use
> relative or perceptual intent. Is this correct? That
would be
> interesting when I want to convert a file for softproof
purposes.

Use the absolute intent. Relative is not specified to touch
the white 
point.

Speaking about paper simulation, there are more than one
concept to do 
paper simulation:
o proof with relative colorimetric intent should perform no
white 
  point adaption, hence no paper simulation
o absolute intent can adapt to paper white assuming the
observer is 
  adapted to the simulation media , like photoshop or
  assume an not adapted observer like standard lcms
behaviour
The later is useful if you like to compare to a hard proof
under 
controled lighing conditions - D50. This is the behaviour in
CinePaint, 
and I expect in many other applications too.

> 2) Do you know of other (if possible free) programs
which would allow
> a softproof -- CLI solutions are also interesting ?

Scribus, CinePaint, Krita, LightScape(Java), 
GraphicsMagic ...
tifficc, argyll,   as well, with some knowledge, you can
easily combine 
conversions to obtain the behaviour you want.

> 3) OT: The Adobe CMM is now available as a download. Is
there an
> option to use the CMM to convert files _without_
Photoshop, for
> example with a CL interface?

It should be selectable on osX, if this is what you use?
On Linux there is no interface to create a CMM API for. It
is on the TODO 
list for some people.
 
> 4) The softproof option of tifficc did not work for me.
Then I got no
> file output. Can someone give me a complete working
example?

Where did you take the binaries used, for which platform?

kind regards
Kai-Uwe Behrmann
--
developing for colour management 
www.behrmann.name + www.oyranos.org + www.cinepaint.org


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Peter Karp wrote:

> 1) lcms and Argyll don't seem to allow a paper
simulation, when I use
> relative or perceptual intent. Is this correct? That
would be
> interesting when I want to convert a file for softproof
purposes.

You get paper simulation using absolute intent. By
definition, relative
or perceptual force the whites to be pure white between the
colorspaces.

You can certainly do softproofing in Argyll, lcms and any
other general
color transformation package. Some programs combine things
to make it simpler to use but more difficult to understand.

The softproofing transform workflow ideally should be:

  Incoming imagery

  profile appropriate for incoming colorspace
  linked using preferred intent to
  profile of output medium (ie. printing press)

  resulting in press file

  profile of output medium
  linked using absolute intent to
  profile of display (ICC V2, not V4 for this to work,
  since V4 breaks display profiles absolute colorimetric!)

  resulting in softproofing image.


Sometimes people don't want a true softproof result
on a display, since the display isn't set to handle
the print white point involved. They want a pseudo
softproof,
where the white point is adapted to the display, but
not completely. This is equivalent to linking
the output medium profile using absolute to the display
profile using relative colorimetric.
(ICC V4 display profiles have made this the default
  behaviour for so called V4 "absolute intent").

Graeme Gill.








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