popovers, first approach

well, I've been dealing with the popover, it was certainly
not easy...

I first tryed to have a nice tableless approach which made
me realize
that the only way to do this, is by having all graphical
parts
(shadows, borders, corners, pointer) placed like absolute
elements in
the popover, and to make this work there have to be
calculations for
the positions, width and height of each (or most) of this
elements
dynamically depending on the content. I don't know how
complex this
could be, maybe not so much, but I didn't like the idea.

Then I decided to move to a more quick/easy approach, which
is not as
nice as the first one, but it'll do for now, and tadaaaa...
we've got
a popover... http://overbits.com/logilogi/logilogi_manta_popover.html


Well, now the real thing... This popover was a bit tricky.

* it has fixed width 200px. We could have Prototype to set
width
depending on content, with a maximum width and a minimum.
Without this
value it would not work right in firefox, But I could test
other
approaches to make it fluid without fixed width... I'll test
further.
* the position is absolute and the "top" value
should be set with
javascript depending on the content
* it's made of tables, well, it's not so bad, but I wanted
to get to a
tableless approach
* it will need different positions for IE and FF, as I could
test
there are a bit difference...

the Prototype library will probably solve many of this
problems, and
if we could have JS to do some work it will be fine for now
I think.

about the exact place were to put the generated code, I've
seen that
most of this type of JS generated code is added at the end
of page and
then positioned with absolute position. In my current
approach the
code is added and the popover is absolute, but contained
inside a
relative span right before the link, which I'm not sure it's
the best
approach and we should see if it works with all browsers
well.

also the content was just something quick I added and it
will get a
nicer layout/style. We could decide the exact contents too.

well, at least, we can start playing with the javascript
too, and we
can see that it's quite nifty to have those popovers... 

Later all.

-- 
Bruno

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Woot! It really looks nifty!

> well, I've been dealing with the popover, it was
certainly not easy...

It doesn't look easy to make indeed...

> I first tryed to have a nice tableless approach which
made me realize
> that the only way to do this, is by having all
graphical parts
> (shadows, borders, corners, pointer) placed like
absolute elements in
> the popover, and to make this work there have to be
calculations for
> the positions, width and height of each (or most) of
this elements
> dynamically depending on the content. I don't know how
complex this
> could be, maybe not so much, but I didn't like the
idea.

Me neither, and tables will be supported by browsers for
some long
time to come, so it's not a very big problem... (and all
users will now
see these nifty pop-overs, and most will never know that
there's a table
under the tablecloth 

> Then I decided to move to a more quick/easy approach,
which is not as
> nice as the first one, but it'll do for now, and
tadaaaa... we've got
> a popover... http://overbits.com/logilogi/logilogi_manta_popover.html


 !

> Well, now the real thing... This popover was a bit
tricky.
> 
> * it has fixed width 200px. We could have Prototype to
set width
> depending on content, with a maximum width and a
minimum. Without this
> value it would not work right in firefox, But I could
test other
> approaches to make it fluid without fixed width... I'll
test further.

Fixed with is not that much of a problem for now I think, as
long as
the height doesn't need to be fixed...

> * the position is absolute and the "top"
value should be set with
> javascript depending on the content

I hope we can find a way to do that, as calculating the
position of
text on the screen is insanely difficult, so we should do
something
absolute, relative to the mouse-position, or make the
position 
relative in some way...

> * it's made of tables, well, it's not so bad, but I
wanted to get to a
> tableless approach

np.

> * it will need different positions for IE and FF, as I
could test
> there are a bit difference...

Ok. I think we can manage that...

> the Prototype library will probably solve many of this
problems, and
> if we could have JS to do some work it will be fine for
now I think.

I agree...

> about the exact place were to put the generated code,
I've seen that
> most of this type of JS generated code is added at the
end of page and
> then positioned with absolute position. In my current
approach the
> code is added and the popover is absolute, but
contained inside a
> relative span right before the link, which I'm not sure
it's the best
> approach and we should see if it works with all
browsers well.

Indeed. If it works it will solve the absolute-position
problem...! 

Still some browsers very well might give difficulties as
according to
the CSS-standard no block-elements or spans are allowed
inside spans,
but as long as it works in FF & IE I don't see this as a
problem.

> also the content was just something quick I added and
it will get a
> nicer layout/style. We could decide the exact contents
too.
> 
> well, at least, we can start playing with the
javascript too, and we
> can see that it's quite nifty to have those popovers...


Indeed!

I'm now working on a drop-down-tabs menu for the toolbar
above the
Logi's... been considering shading there too, but I think
the link-
popovers will jump out more if we don't use shadow in other
places...

(also been thinking about the posibility to add short
'shouts' inside
boxes like this to point at spelling-errors, or to ask an
author to
elaborate on something... but we'll do that after the basics
of Manta
are up & working...)

Tonight I will try to integrate the magnificant
link-pop-overs! 

Wybo

> Later all.
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

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On Dec 15, 2007 8:54 AM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> Woot! It really looks nifty!
>
> > well, I've been dealing with the popover, it was
certainly not easy...
>
> It doesn't look easy to make indeed...
>
> > I first tryed to have a nice tableless approach
which made me realize
> > that the only way to do this, is by having all
graphical parts
> > (shadows, borders, corners, pointer) placed like
absolute elements in
> > the popover, and to make this work there have to
be calculations for
> > the positions, width and height of each (or most)
of this elements
> > dynamically depending on the content. I don't know
how complex this
> > could be, maybe not so much, but I didn't like the
idea.
>
> Me neither, and tables will be supported by browsers
for some long
> time to come, so it's not a very big problem... (and
all users will now
> see these nifty pop-overs, and most will never know
that there's a table
> under the tablecloth 
>
> > Then I decided to move to a more quick/easy
approach, which is not as
> > nice as the first one, but it'll do for now, and
tadaaaa... we've got
> > a popover... http://overbits.com/logilogi/logilogi_manta_popover.html

>
> 
!
>
> > Well, now the real thing... This popover was a bit
tricky.
> >
> > * it has fixed width 200px. We could have
Prototype to set width
> > depending on content, with a maximum width and a
minimum. Without this
> > value it would not work right in firefox, But I
could test other
> > approaches to make it fluid without fixed width...
I'll test further.
>
> Fixed with is not that much of a problem for now I
think, as long as
> the height doesn't need to be fixed...
>
> > * the position is absolute and the "top"
value should be set with
> > javascript depending on the content
>
> I hope we can find a way to do that, as calculating the
position of
> text on the screen is insanely difficult, so we should
do something
> absolute, relative to the mouse-position, or make the
position
> relative in some way...
>
> > * it's made of tables, well, it's not so bad, but
I wanted to get to a
> > tableless approach
>
> np.
>
> > * it will need different positions for IE and FF,
as I could test
> > there are a bit difference...
>
> Ok. I think we can manage that...
>
> > the Prototype library will probably solve many of
this problems, and
> > if we could have JS to do some work it will be
fine for now I think.
>
> I agree...
>
> > about the exact place were to put the generated
code, I've seen that
> > most of this type of JS generated code is added at
the end of page and
> > then positioned with absolute position. In my
current approach the
> > code is added and the popover is absolute, but
contained inside a
> > relative span right before the link, which I'm not
sure it's the best
> > approach and we should see if it works with all
browsers well.
>
> Indeed. If it works it will solve the absolute-position
problem...! 
>
> Still some browsers very well might give difficulties
as according to
> the CSS-standard no block-elements or spans are allowed
inside spans,
> but as long as it works in FF & IE I don't see this
as a problem.
>
Well, maybe the absolute position taken from the mouse would
do the
trick, and then we could also be standard compliant by
removing the
span tag, which was the only way I found to have a tag
behave like
inline text and don't brake the text. (don't remember why
"inline"
didn't work).

> > also the content was just something quick I added
and it will get a
> > nicer layout/style. We could decide the exact
contents too.
> >
> > well, at least, we can start playing with the
javascript too, and we
> > can see that it's quite nifty to have those
popovers... 
>
> Indeed!
>
> I'm now working on a drop-down-tabs menu for the
toolbar above the
> Logi's... been considering shading there too, but I
think the link-
> popovers will jump out more if we don't use shadow in
other places...
>
> (also been thinking about the posibility to add short
'shouts' inside
> boxes like this to point at spelling-errors, or to ask
an author to
> elaborate on something... but we'll do that after the
basics of Manta
> are up & working...)
>
mm... that's very interesting... although
"shotuing" is not the best
way to enter a conversation... :P

> Tonight I will try to integrate the magnificant
link-pop-overs! 
>
I already seen your menus and they look great! manta is
actually
coming to life!!!

it's very nice to have those menus there, apart from
functionality, it
helps a lot to understand what can be done and this guides a
lot to
new users...

Also, about actions that the user has no permission, I would
go for
the approach of showing it greayed out, since this would
also help to
understand more.

Later.

-- 
Bruno

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On Dec 15, 2007 10:32 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> I just integrated Bruno's magnificant pop-overs!
>
> ---
>
> > New subscription process for jumptv.com.
>
> Neat site, apart from the FF-glitches...
>
> > Greying out would be simple but support of this
greying out and messaging
> > about would be complex and useless.
>
> The wonders of plain server-generated html make this
greying-out quite
> easy 
>
> > I'd better be online on #logilogi 
>
> Had a nice talk... Would be nice to meet there more
often 
>
> ---
>
> > > Still some browsers very well might give
difficulties as according to
> > > the CSS-standard no block-elements or spans
are allowed inside spans,
> > > but as long as it works in FF & IE I
don't see this as a problem.
> >
> > Well, maybe the absolute position taken from the
mouse would do the
> > trick, and then we could also be standard
compliant by removing the
> > span tag, which was the only way I found to have a
tag behave like
> > inline text and don't brake the text. (don't
remember why "inline"
> > didn't work).
>
> Still I think it currently works beautifully, and
linking the pop-
> overs to the links also makes a more solid / stable
impression than
> having them now here, and then there depending on the
mouse...
>
> (but we can try alternatives later)
>
> > > (also been thinking about the posibility to
add short 'shouts' inside
> > > boxes like this to point at spelling-errors,
or to ask an author to
> > > elaborate on something... but we'll do that
after the basics of Manta
> > > are up & working...)
> > >
> > mm... that's very interesting... although
"shotuing" is not the best
> > way to enter a conversation... :P
>
> Just didn't find another name for them then, now I'm
thinking about the
> word note... (and I maybe got carried away a bit by the
speech-cloudish
> look of the pop-overs 
>
Actually I think it's great to get this concepts. It would
be nice and
usable at the same time. Maybe, we could think further about
this and
get to some type of communication with this popovers, where
we can
have the system-style of popover, with extra options, maybe
similar to
a menu (in the way it's system-like), and then use this
speech-clouds
as comunication from users... Interesting.

> > > Tonight I will try to integrate the
magnificant link-pop-overs! 
> >
> > I already seen your menus and they look great!
manta is actually
> > coming to life!!!
>
> 
>
> (/me is not so happy yet about the looks of the
dropdowns, but will fix that
> when Andrews Manta's Colors Makeover comes in...)
>
well, the colors are not the best that's right, but the
layout is
perfect and they work right, the colors will do the rest.

It's very nice to see the popovers already
"poping" over the links... 

Here are some observations to be fixed:
* We should add some extra features like a
"loading" animation (even
for little while)
* Check for the mouse out
* tune the reaction time, I think now is too long.
* preload the images so it will show up faster
* I have still some fixes to do to the layout
 * the span containing the popover (transparent) is bigger
than the seen popover
 * some problems reported on safari by miguel

Later.

-- 
Bruno

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> > word note... (and I maybe got carried away a bit
by the speech-cloudish
> > look of the pop-overs 
>
> Actually I think it's great to get this concepts. It
would be nice and
> usable at the same time. Maybe, we could think further
about this and
> get to some type of communication with this popovers,
where we can
> have the system-style of popover, with extra options,
maybe similar to
> a menu (in the way it's system-like), and then use this
speech-clouds
> as comunication from users... Interesting.

Hm, I'd like to keep it a bit simple once we do it (after
manta is
up), I was imagining it as having underlines for words that
have
notes, and then instead of in a cloud above, it would be
nice to put
the cloud below the word, and then allow some short notes in
there
(if too many we can add a more-link, which opens a new
window or so)...

> > > > Tonight I will try to integrate the
magnificant link-pop-overs! 
> > >
> > > I already seen your menus and they look
great! manta is actually
> > > coming to life!!!
> >
> > 
> >
> > (/me is not so happy yet about the looks of the
dropdowns, but will fix that
> > when Andrews Manta's Colors Makeover comes in...)
> 
> well, the colors are not the best that's right, but the
layout is
> perfect and they work right, the colors will do the
rest.



> It's very nice to see the popovers already
"poping" over the links... 

Indeed! 

> Here are some observations to be fixed:
> * We should add some extra features like a
"loading" animation (even
> for little while)

Would be needed indeed, especially when you've read my
response about
the reaction-time... ;)

> * Check for the mouse out

That's indeed something that needs tending. I guess we will
want to
have a mouse-out for the word too, but then the mouse must
be able to
pass from the word to the pop-over.

> * tune the reaction time, I think now is too long.

There is no reaction-time as of yet, this is pure
loading-time 

> * preload the images so it will show up faster

Good idea...

> * I have still some fixes to do to the layout

'k (still it looks fine). In this context; why is there a
table within a table
near the bottom of the clouds ?:

  <td colspan="3">
    <table border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0" height="28"
width="100%">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td
class="cbl">&nbsp;</td>
          <td
class="bb">&nbsp;</td>
          <td
class="cbr">&nbsp;</td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
  </td>

Also I set the bottom-value to a constant now so the
pop-overs nicely
align with their pointy-part above the word... Does this
work in IE too ?

>  * the span containing the popover (transparent) is
bigger than the seen popover
>  * some problems reported on safari by miguel

I think for now we go for FF, then for IE... (& maybe
later on safari 
 
Wybo

> Later.
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

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On Dec 17, 2007 5:04 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> > > word note... (and I maybe got carried away a
bit by the speech-cloudish
> > > look of the pop-overs 
> >
> > Actually I think it's great to get this concepts.
It would be nice and
> > usable at the same time. Maybe, we could think
further about this and
> > get to some type of communication with this
popovers, where we can
> > have the system-style of popover, with extra
options, maybe similar to
> > a menu (in the way it's system-like), and then use
this speech-clouds
> > as comunication from users... Interesting.
>
> Hm, I'd like to keep it a bit simple once we do it
(after manta is
> up), I was imagining it as having underlines for words
that have
> notes, and then instead of in a cloud above, it would
be nice to put
> the cloud below the word, and then allow some short
notes in there
> (if too many we can add a more-link, which opens a new
window or so)...
>
also a comment over a linked text would have two popovers
when
hovered. We will eventually have to define very well the
styling of
all this possible commenting-linking and other tools we
would want to
have. We should take in consideration all functionalities at
the same
time to define styling for it, later, as you said.

> > > > > Tonight I will try to integrate the
magnificant link-pop-overs! 
> > > >
> > > > I already seen your menus and they look
great! manta is actually
> > > > coming to life!!!
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > (/me is not so happy yet about the looks of
the dropdowns, but will fix that
> > > when Andrews Manta's Colors Makeover comes
in...)
> >
> > well, the colors are not the best that's right,
but the layout is
> > perfect and they work right, the colors will do
the rest.
>
> 
>
> > It's very nice to see the popovers already
"poping" over the links... 
>
> Indeed! 
>
> > Here are some observations to be fixed:
> > * We should add some extra features like a
"loading" animation (even
> > for little while)
>
> Would be needed indeed, especially when you've read my
response about
> the reaction-time... ;)
>
> > * Check for the mouse out
>
> That's indeed something that needs tending. I guess we
will want to
> have a mouse-out for the word too, but then the mouse
must be able to
> pass from the word to the pop-over.

This functionality was already developed by Miguel for the
previous
version I believe.

>
> > * tune the reaction time, I think now is too
long.
>
> There is no reaction-time as of yet, this is pure
loading-time 
>
right... it'll be great to have the loading animation and,
in case of
mouse out it should close, even if didn't finish loading, I
guess it
would finish loading and then be accesible faster?

> > * preload the images so it will show up faster
>
> Good idea...
>
> > * I have still some fixes to do to the layout
>
> 'k (still it looks fine). In this context; why is there
a table within a table
> near the bottom of the clouds ?:
>
>   <td colspan="3">
>     <table border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
height="28" width="100%">
>       <tbody>
>         <tr>
>           <td
class="cbl">&nbsp;</td>
>           <td
class="bb">&nbsp;</td>
>           <td
class="cbr">&nbsp;</td>
>         </tr>
>       </tbody>
>     </table>
>   </td>
>
> Also I set the bottom-value to a constant now so the
pop-overs nicely
> align with their pointy-part above the word... Does
this work in IE too ?
>
The extra table was to fix problems with a columns span,
since the
left-bottom corner wasn't of the same dimensions as the
top-left-corner and this way it doesn't use so much margin
at le left
of the popover... I told you it was not a tidy approach...
;) I'll try
to get it better later.

> >  * the span containing the popover (transparent)
is bigger than the seen popover
> >  * some problems reported on safari by miguel
>
> I think for now we go for FF, then for IE... (&
maybe later on safari 
>
It was a minor thing. maybe need a fixed width in some
cells.

> Wybo
>
>
> > Later.
> >
> > --
> > Bruno
>



-- 
Bruno

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> > the cloud below the word, and then allow some
short notes in there
> > (if too many we can add a more-link, which opens a
new window or so)...
>
> also a comment over a linked text would have two
popovers when
> hovered. We will eventually have to define very well
the styling of
> all this possible commenting-linking and other tools we
would want to
> have. We should take in consideration all
functionalities at the same
> time to define styling for it, later, as you said.

Indeed it would have 2 popovers when it has notes and links,
one
above, and one below.

> > > * Check for the mouse out
> >
> > That's indeed something that needs tending. I
guess we will want to
> > have a mouse-out for the word too, but then the
mouse must be able to
> > pass from the word to the pop-over.
> 
> This functionality was already developed by Miguel for
the previous
> version I believe.

Yes, but then the drop-down was right below the text... but
indeed the
code is still there. I will play with it and see if it still
works fine 
one of the coming days...

> > > * tune the reaction time, I think now is too
long.
> >
> > There is no reaction-time as of yet, this is pure
loading-time 
> 
> right... it'll be great to have the loading animation
and, in case of
> mouse out it should close, even if didn't finish
loading, I guess it
> would finish loading and then be accesible faster?

Indeed, that seems what we need to me.

> >         </tr>
> >       </tbody>
> >     </table>
> >   </td>
> >
> > Also I set the bottom-value to a constant now so
the pop-overs nicely
> > align with their pointy-part above the word...
Does this work in IE too ?
>
> The extra table was to fix problems with a columns
span, since the
> left-bottom corner wasn't of the same dimensions as
the
> top-left-corner and this way it doesn't use so much
margin at le left
> of the popover... I told you it was not a tidy
approach... ;) I'll try
> to get it better later.

No it's fine as it is. I just was curious about it was this
way.

> > I think for now we go for FF, then for IE...
(& maybe later on safari 
> 
> It was a minor thing. maybe need a fixed width in some
cells.

Ok, then it can be fixed if you or he likes, but I don't
have
safari, so I can't do it...

Wybo

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On Dec 17, 2007 7:55 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> > > the cloud below the word, and then allow some
short notes in there
> > > (if too many we can add a more-link, which
opens a new window or so)...
> >
> > also a comment over a linked text would have two
popovers when
> > hovered. We will eventually have to define very
well the styling of
> > all this possible commenting-linking and other
tools we would want to
> > have. We should take in consideration all
functionalities at the same
> > time to define styling for it, later, as you
said.
>
> Indeed it would have 2 popovers when it has notes and
links, one
> above, and one below.
>
> > > > * Check for the mouse out
> > >
> > > That's indeed something that needs tending. I
guess we will want to
> > > have a mouse-out for the word too, but then
the mouse must be able to
> > > pass from the word to the pop-over.
> >
> > This functionality was already developed by Miguel
for the previous
> > version I believe.
>
> Yes, but then the drop-down was right below the text...
but indeed the
> code is still there. I will play with it and see if it
still works fine
> one of the coming days...
>
I don't know if he already talked to you, but Miguel wanted
to work on
this but he had been busy studying.

> > > > * tune the reaction time, I think now is
too long.
> > >
> > > There is no reaction-time as of yet, this is
pure loading-time 
> >
> > right... it'll be great to have the loading
animation and, in case of
> > mouse out it should close, even if didn't finish
loading, I guess it
> > would finish loading and then be accesible
faster?
>
> Indeed, that seems what we need to me.
>
I had in mind to start using the wiki at SF (or LL if we
can), and I
think it would be good thing to have in this process...

> > >         </tr>
> > >       </tbody>
> > >     </table>
> > >   </td>
> > >
> > > Also I set the bottom-value to a constant now
so the pop-overs nicely
> > > align with their pointy-part above the
word... Does this work in IE too ?
> >
> > The extra table was to fix problems with a columns
span, since the
> > left-bottom corner wasn't of the same dimensions
as the
> > top-left-corner and this way it doesn't use so
much margin at le left
> > of the popover... I told you it was not a tidy
approach... ;) I'll try
> > to get it better later.
>
> No it's fine as it is. I just was curious about it was
this way.
>
> > > I think for now we go for FF, then for IE...
(& maybe later on safari 
> >
> > It was a minor thing. maybe need a fixed width in
some cells.
>
> Ok, then it can be fixed if you or he likes, but I
don't have
> safari, so I can't do it...
>
> Wybo
>
>
I will probably be able to spend some more time on LL before
end of
the year (at least I'd like to), so I wonder where I could
help out.
I've seen the edit text-field overlapping the columns, maybe
it's just
a FF2.0 thing that is interpreting differently from previous
versions,
hopefully for good reasons.
I will search for this type of things and solve them if
you'all think so...

I've also been trying to solve the IE Layout problem, but I
couldn't
get any clue. I made diffs and tested things but couldn't
find a clue
right now, it's a little frustrating. When I was working at
the
popover everything was working right in IE, but I couldn't
find the
problematic difference, maybe it has to do with the menues
that added
some code and JS. Also the popover is no longer working in
IE. Maybe
if we left it for later the solution arises in the way, or
we will
find it if it doesn't.

-- 
Bruno

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> > Yes, but then the drop-down was right below the
text... but indeed the
> > code is still there. I will play with it and see
if it still works fine
> > one of the coming days...
>
> I don't know if he already talked to you, but Miguel
wanted to work on
> this but he had been busy studying.

He didn't talk to me yet, but I hope he will when he has
time again 

> > > right... it'll be great to have the loading
animation and, in case of
> > > mouse out it should close, even if didn't
finish loading, I guess it
> > > would finish loading and then be accesible
faster?
> >
> > Indeed, that seems what we need to me.
>
> I had in mind to start using the wiki at SF (or LL if
we can), and I
> think it would be good thing to have in this
process...

What for should we use the Wiki ? As when most read the list
now and
then I think we can still manage the flow of information and
ideas
with the current low volume...

> I will probably be able to spend some more time on LL
before end of
> the year (at least I'd like to), so I wonder where I
could help out.

I think the best bet, given your good skills at CSS / html,
would be
to get the UI ready for IE (starting with the large
elements).

Another thing you also can do is get the toolbar-help pages
into the
thickbox.

And then there's the Editor (LL-link button & a simple
skin for it)
and the guides that you, Artyom or Miguel could claim and
do.

And last but not least; when Andrew sends in his coloring,
that too
needs integration, and while it probably would be easy, it
will be
something esthetically rewarding to do...

> I've seen the edit text-field overlapping the columns,
maybe it's just
> a FF2.0 thing that is interpreting differently from
previous versions,
> hopefully for good reasons.
> I will search for this type of things and solve them if
you'all think so...

Ok. Still I don't have that error here (FF 2.0.0.11 on
Ubuntu).

> problematic difference, maybe it has to do with the
menues that added
> some code and JS. Also the popover is no longer working
in IE. Maybe
> if we left it for later the solution arises in the way,
or we will
> find it if it doesn't.

Saving a copy of the current page, and then stripping out
various bits
and seeing if the problem disappears, and then where it
appears, seems
the quickest way then to fix this problem...

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

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On Dec 19, 2007 5:28 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> > > Yes, but then the drop-down was right below
the text... but indeed the
> > > code is still there. I will play with it and
see if it still works fine
> > > one of the coming days...
> >
> > I don't know if he already talked to you, but
Miguel wanted to work on
> > this but he had been busy studying.
>
> He didn't talk to me yet, but I hope he will when he
has time again 
>
> > > > right... it'll be great to have the
loading animation and, in case of
> > > > mouse out it should close, even if
didn't finish loading, I guess it
> > > > would finish loading and then be
accesible faster?
> > >
> > > Indeed, that seems what we need to me.
> >
> > I had in mind to start using the wiki at SF (or LL
if we can), and I
> > think it would be good thing to have in this
process...
>
> What for should we use the Wiki ? As when most read the
list now and
> then I think we can still manage the flow of
information and ideas
> with the current low volume...
>
> > I will probably be able to spend some more time on
LL before end of
> > the year (at least I'd like to), so I wonder where
I could help out.
>
> I think the best bet, given your good skills at CSS /
html, would be
> to get the UI ready for IE (starting with the large
elements).
>
> Another thing you also can do is get the toolbar-help
pages into the
> thickbox.
>
> And then there's the Editor (LL-link button & a
simple skin for it)
> and the guides that you, Artyom or Miguel could claim
and do.
>
> And last but not least; when Andrew sends in his
coloring, that too
> needs integration, and while it probably would be easy,
it will be
> something esthetically rewarding to do...
>
> > I've seen the edit text-field overlapping the
columns, maybe it's just
> > a FF2.0 thing that is interpreting differently
from previous versions,
> > hopefully for good reasons.
> > I will search for this type of things and solve
them if you'all think so...
>
> Ok. Still I don't have that error here (FF 2.0.0.11 on
Ubuntu).
Ok, maybe it's the FF 3 Beta1 problem. I thought it was
already from 2.0.

>
> > problematic difference, maybe it has to do with
the menues that added
> > some code and JS. Also the popover is no longer
working in IE. Maybe
> > if we left it for later the solution arises in the
way, or we will
> > find it if it doesn't.
>
> Saving a copy of the current page, and then stripping
out various bits
> and seeing if the problem disappears, and then where it
appears, seems
> the quickest way then to fix this problem...
>
I tested all that posibilities, I couldn't find the
problem... very
strange, but certainly not magic.

> Wybo
>
> > --
> > Bruno
>
>



-- 
Bruno

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