Re: Back up again, Rails 2.x-ready...

As some of you might probably have found out, the server of
Manta &
OgOg has literally been off the air for a few days...

It was namely in early January that the hd in my desktop
started
ticking. I was just barely in time replacing it with a
raid-1 
setup. Then, when everything was running again, the first
raid-
disk in the server appeared to be broken too. And when I put
in a 
new disk in the data-center the second raid-disk appeared to
be 
bad also...

Luckily I still had some backups, but they were mainly of
data and
code, not config... So I'm all up to date now again on
server &
raid-config ;)

Anyway, then I saw that we already lived in a Rails
2.0-world, so I
updated the code of OgOg & LL-manta to make the
transition... And
today that was done, and now everything is humming along
again 

(so update to Rails 2.0 for any devving...)

I'll be doing some smaller transition-fixes soon, and then
I'll be
back at the move of Manta to html. Don't think we will make
it before
LL-day, but we'll see 

Also see:
http://foundation.logilogi.or
g/2008/1/19/extradition-free-speech-and-free-knowledge

Wybo

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> In fact it's taking me a hard time to find a
"Maître de Stage" here
> in Grenoble, wich is something mandatory. A maître de
stage is a
> person with some degree that supports/takes in charge
my placement
> (internship). The thing is that this person should be
here in
> Grenoble in June the day of my presentation (we could
arrenge this

I just asked both my professor and the people from the
OFSET-
foundation (most are from France) whether one of them wants
to become
your Maître de stage. So hopefully we will have someone
soon.

How is it at your end ?

greetings,

Wybo Wiersma

PS: Regarding development: I'm almost done with the move of
logi's
from textile to html.

> Thanxs
> 
> Miguel

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On Feb 6, 2008 5:52 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> > In fact it's taking me a hard time to find a
"Maître de Stage" here
> > in Grenoble, wich is something mandatory. A maître
de stage is a
> > person with some degree that supports/takes in
charge my placement
> > (internship). The thing is that this person should
be here in
> > Grenoble in June the day of my presentation (we
could arrenge this
>
> I just asked both my professor and the people from the
OFSET-
> foundation (most are from France) whether one of them
wants to become
> your Maître de stage. So hopefully we will have someone
soon.
>
> How is it at your end ?
>


I have sent a lot of emails and finally I found two
researchers, here
in Grenoble, interested in taking in charge my stage at
LogiLogi.
Tomorrow I will meet one of them to talk about LogiLogi, if
everything
goes well I will have my "Maitre de Stage" by
tomorrow.

Thanks for your help.

Miguel

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> > foundation (most are from France) whether one of
them wants to become
> > your Maître de stage. So hopefully we will have
someone soon.
> >
> > How is it at your end ?
> 
> I have sent a lot of emails and finally I found two
researchers, here
> in Grenoble, interested in taking in charge my stage at
LogiLogi.
> Tomorrow I will meet one of them to talk about
LogiLogi, if everything
> goes well I will have my "Maitre de Stage" by
tomorrow.

Great news! Cool!

Really happy to hear this!

I hope all goes well tomorrow 

Sorry we missed eachother in IRC, but on wednesday-evening I
usually
have my documentary & discussion-evening, so I didn't
check my mail
untill now....

Wybo

> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Miguel

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How are things going Miguel ?

Did all go well with the Maitre de Stage you had found ?

In response to my post on the OFSET list, two people seem
interested
in helping us out. Their names are Aime Vareille, and
Guillaume
Allegre. The latter sent his mail in French, and as my
French is not
that good, I forwarded it to you so you can read it
first-hand...

Also I heard a first notice from Nijmegen that they are
preparing the
new GiP project (students co-developing/improving LogiLogi).
Likely I
will be visiting them for a first talk some time in the
coming 2
weeks...

Wybo

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Because Miguel is on board now (he found a maitre de
stage...; he will
probably send something about that to the list soon) and
because the
students from Nijmegen university can be expected some time
soon, even
more stuff will be communicated via this list...

But first of all: a warm welcome to Miguel! Even if we know
him already 
for some time. Among other things he created the javascript
for the 
link-pop-overs, which is a nifty bit of code to say the
least... 

Anyway, hereby the Manta roadmap, as I currently see it.

First of all the priorities:
1) Getting the pre-alpha to Live status as soon as possible
2) Doing things that make a difference to the end-user

Then what needs doing:
* Logi's as HTML for WYSIWYG-integration - /me is almost
done with this
* Link-editing/adding from the editor
* Comment-editing/adding from the wizzards (the +comment
button)
* Multi-browser layout

Especially these have priority, and I think can be done in a
matter of
weeks at most... We should try to do these by ourselves,
before the 
Nijmegen students come in...

Then we can move the pre-alpha to alpha-state, and start
testing it. I
think about organizing a bug-hunt with the students (&
all who want),
with a counter of who finds most bugs and who fixes most...

Stuff that needs doing here is going through the views and
integrating
the not yet integrated with the new layout (search-page,
peergroups-
listing, etc...)

Then very soon - after some weeks - we make Manta live, and
move it to
logilogi.org, instead of logilogi.org:3000/

After that I think we need to focus on two things:
1) Getting people to use Manta
2) Responding wisely to their needs, wishes, and
feature-requests

In terms of tasks for when there is not a good feature they
might
want, we could think of:
* Displaying comments in the style of the comments on the
GPL-3 (with
  red marker, possibly only visible on mouse-over of a
paragraph). 
  Been thinking about this, but it may be sensible to
differentiate 
  between links and short comments. We can discuss this
& I will write
  more on it later anyway (but comment & ask &
suggest! .
* Improving/creating the wizzards...
* Looking at the color-scheme again, and improving it.
* A code-cleanup and checking if everything is up to the
latest Rails
  standards...
* A check of the documentation of GiP1, and updating it
where needed...
* Releasing the Diff, Weaver & PositionRange libs as
gems and maybe
  implementing them in C++ for speed-gains

Etcetera. And then soon Manta will be very usable, stable
and mature...

Beyond that there is much possible, and much open. A new
version
perhaps: like splitting Manta into seperate modules,
creating an API,
and what not more... Maybe even a layout for use on e-paper


But for now the fast-track leads towards Manta going live!

I've added most of the tasks to the tracker of our
Sourceforge-
page: http:/
/sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=78643

We will be using it a lot more now that we're with more
people. And
I'd suggest that from now on we add every task we do, or
want to see
done to it & assign it to ourselves...

Other good things are: Weekly commits, all communication via
this
mailing-list, and as said, the tracker 

So far,

Wybo Wiersma

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First off all Happy Birthday Bruno!
I just talk to him and his alive. He just came back from
holidays and
he will be available again by tomorrow.

On Feb 9, 2008 10:32 AM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> Because Miguel is on board now (he found a maitre de
stage...; he will
> probably send something about that to the list soon)
and because the
> students from Nijmegen university can be expected some
time soon, even
> more stuff will be communicated via this list...
>

Yes, I finally found my maitre de Stage, Jan Mikac, he is
part of the
WAM project (http://wam.inrialpes.fr/
) of the LIG (Laboratoire
d'Informatique de Grenoble).
>From now on I will be fully dedicated to LL form
Wednesday to Friday afternoons.




> But first of all: a warm welcome to Miguel! Even if we
know him already
> for some time. Among other things he created the
javascript for the
> link-pop-overs, which is a nifty bit of code to say the
least... 
>

Thanks again 


> Anyway, hereby the Manta roadmap, as I currently see
it.
>
> First of all the priorities:
> 1) Getting the pre-alpha to Live status as soon as
possible
> 2) Doing things that make a difference to the end-user
>

as soon as possible!


> Then what needs doing:
> * Logi's as HTML for WYSIWYG-integration - /me is
almost done with this
> * Link-editing/adding from the editor
> * Comment-editing/adding from the wizzards (the
+comment button)
> * Multi-browser layout
>
> Especially these have priority, and I think can be done
in a matter of
> weeks at most... We should try to do these by
ourselves, before the
> Nijmegen students come in...

Yes, I can start playing with some javascript to archive
this.

> Then we can move the pre-alpha to alpha-state, and
start testing it. I
> think about organizing a bug-hunt with the students
(& all who want),
> with a counter of who finds most bugs and who fixes
most...

0 bug LogiLogi Day

> Stuff that needs doing here is going through the views
and integrating
> the not yet integrated with the new layout
(search-page, peergroups-
> listing, etc...)
>
> Then very soon - after some weeks - we make Manta live,
and move it to
> logilogi.org, instead of logilogi.org:3000/
>
> After that I think we need to focus on two things:
> 1) Getting people to use Manta
> 2) Responding wisely to their needs, wishes, and
feature-requests
>
> In terms of tasks for when there is not a good feature
they might
> want, we could think of:
> * Displaying comments in the style of the comments on
the GPL-3 (with
>   red marker, possibly only visible on mouse-over of a
paragraph).
>   Been thinking about this, but it may be sensible to
differentiate
>   between links and short comments. We can discuss this
& I will write
>   more on it later anyway (but comment & ask &
suggest! .
> * Improving/creating the wizzards...
> * Looking at the color-scheme again, and improving it.
> * A code-cleanup and checking if everything is up to
the latest Rails
>   standards...
> * A check of the documentation of GiP1, and updating it
where needed...
> * Releasing the Diff, Weaver & PositionRange libs
as gems and maybe
>   implementing them in C++ for speed-gains
>
> Etcetera. And then soon Manta will be very usable,
stable and mature...
>
> Beyond that there is much possible, and much open. A
new version
> perhaps: like splitting Manta into seperate modules,
creating an API,
> and what not more... Maybe even a layout for use on
e-paper 
>
> But for now the fast-track leads towards Manta going
live!

Yes, there are a lot of ideas and things that could be done
to improve LL.
But we have to put Manta Live so we can discuss those ideas
in Manta itself!

> I've added most of the tasks to the tracker of our
Sourceforge-
> page: http:/
/sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=78643
>
> We will be using it a lot more now that we're with more
people. And
> I'd suggest that from now on we add every task we do,
or want to see
> done to it & assign it to ourselves...
>
cool

> Other good things are: Weekly commits, all
communication via this
> mailing-list, and as said, the tracker 
>
> So far,
>
> Wybo Wiersma
>
>
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> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Miguel Lezama

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> First off all Happy Birthday Bruno!
> I just talk to him and his alive. He just came back
from holidays and
> he will be available again by tomorrow.

Grande! A happy birthday to you Bruno! 

(is it today ? your birthay ? so I will know it next
time...)

& How was your party  ?

> On Feb 9, 2008 10:32 AM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> > Because Miguel is on board now (he found a maitre
de stage...; he will
> > probably send something about that to the list
soon) and because the
> > students from Nijmegen university can be expected
some time soon, even
> > more stuff will be communicated via this list...
> 
> Yes, I finally found my maitre de Stage, Jan Mikac, he
is part of the
> WAM project (http://wam.inrialpes.fr/
) of the LIG (Laboratoire
> d'Informatique de Grenoble).

Have a look at your welcoming blog-post:
http://foundation.log
ilogi.org/
I thanked him too in there...

> From now on I will be fully dedicated to LL form
Wednesday to Friday afternoons.

Great!

> > Anyway, hereby the Manta roadmap, as I currently
see it.
> >
> > First of all the priorities:
> > 1) Getting the pre-alpha to Live status as soon as
possible
> > 2) Doing things that make a difference to the
end-user
> 
> as soon as possible!

I am working on Manta too again today. I had some
server-admin-stuff
to do yesterday for a friend of mine...

> > Especially these have priority, and I think can be
done in a matter of
> > weeks at most... We should try to do these by
ourselves, before the
> > Nijmegen students come in...
> 
> Yes, I can start playing with some javascript to
archive this.

Looking forward to it. The idea is that people can select
some text,
and then submit the selected positions (characters to begin
and end-
position) in the text with a link to the server.

I think we can use this mechanism for both logi-links and
comments.
That way we can keep the editor clean, and let the user
focus on his
text before he adds the links.

A consequence of this would be that we will have to find a
way to
also allow the removal of links through this, or a similar
method.

> > perhaps: like splitting Manta into seperate
modules, creating an API,
> > and what not more... Maybe even a layout for use
on e-paper 
> >
> > But for now the fast-track leads towards Manta
going live!
> 
> Yes, there are a lot of ideas and things that could be
done to improve LL.
> But we have to put Manta Live so we can discuss those
ideas in Manta itself!

Indeed! (or at least while referring to the working Manta)

Wybo

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I've today committed the HTML-editing for logi's. The
pre-alpha demo
has not yet been updated because we still don't have a way
of editing/
adding links, and this is also true for the demo (the
demo-db is 
refilled from db/default_data.yml after each update)...

Now I've been thinking about how we can do the link-editing.
Adding
won't be much of a problem, as I've experimented with
TinyMCE today,
and with
tinyMCE.get('logi[body_text]').selection.setContent() this
is going to be fairly easy as long as we lead people (via
the wizzard) 
to only add one link at a time...

(see the test-link I set up for this in
/app/view/logi/edit.yadda...)

However link-removal is going to be a bit trickier...
Because showing
all links in the editor is not possible because of the
possible 
overlap between them. So something like showing all links in
a list at
the side, and then allowing the user to select them, and/or
drag them
into a waste-bin & delete them seems the way to go to
me...

Possibly the text they apply to can then be shown in the
editor in a
simmilar way as when it was selected....

I will start preparing the controller for this tomorrow.

greetings,

Wybo

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Hi all!

Well, I've been already online at #logilogi but now I'm also
catching
up the mailing list. I'll respond short by now just with
some coments.

First of all, thanks all for the birthday greetings, we had
a party
over my home and we had a great time.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Wybo Wiersma <wybologilogi.org> wrote:
> Because Miguel is on board now (he found a maitre de
stage...; he will
>  probably send something about that to the list soon)
and because the
>  students from Nijmegen university can be expected some
time soon, even
>  more stuff will be communicated via this list...
>
>  But first of all: a warm welcome to Miguel! Even if we
know him already
>  for some time. Among other things he created the
javascript for the
>  link-pop-overs, which is a nifty bit of code to say
the least... 
>

It's really great that he'll be working at LL for points on
his career!

>  Anyway, hereby the Manta roadmap, as I currently see
it.
>
>  First of all the priorities:
>  1) Getting the pre-alpha to Live status as soon as
possible
>  2) Doing things that make a difference to the
end-user
>
>  Then what needs doing:
>  * Logi's as HTML for WYSIWYG-integration - /me is
almost done with this
>  * Link-editing/adding from the editor
>  * Comment-editing/adding from the wizzards (the
+comment button)
>  * Multi-browser layout
>

What's been up with Andrew? the new color scheme? should we
take care
of his layout and work on it from now on?

>  Especially these have priority, and I think can be
done in a matter of
>  weeks at most... We should try to do these by
ourselves, before the
>  Nijmegen students come in...
>
>  Then we can move the pre-alpha to alpha-state, and
start testing it. I
>  think about organizing a bug-hunt with the students
(& all who want),
>  with a counter of who finds most bugs and who fixes
most...
>
>  Stuff that needs doing here is going through the views
and integrating
>  the not yet integrated with the new layout
(search-page, peergroups-
>  listing, etc...)
>
>  Then very soon - after some weeks - we make Manta
live, and move it to
>  logilogi.org, instead of logilogi.org:3000/
>
we should schedule a party when this happens... at least a
IRC-party!

>  After that I think we need to focus on two things:
>  1) Getting people to use Manta
>  2) Responding wisely to their needs, wishes, and
feature-requests
>
>  In terms of tasks for when there is not a good feature
they might
>  want, we could think of:
>  * Displaying comments in the style of the comments on
the GPL-3 (with
>   red marker, possibly only visible on mouse-over of a
paragraph).
>   Been thinking about this, but it may be sensible to
differentiate
>   between links and short comments. We can discuss this
& I will write
>   more on it later anyway (but comment & ask &
suggest! .

As we've dicussed before, I see that as LL get's more
complex as a
tool, and for example, we need to differentiate between
linked text,
selected text, commented text, and so on, we need to be very
clear and
consistent through the entire system. For example, linked
text should
always have the same style accross LL, then there could be
buttons
that should always be the same. Then we could also have some
spected
interactions, like when hover on a Logi's text it could have
some
reaction, like showing the commented texts, or just some
small detail
that shows that when you mouse-hover the logi-text you get a
reaction,
hopefully with more information.

This are just examples that are not necesarry what I'd
propose and are
just to make my point, that we should get very clear about
this, and
we should learn from the web what are the most common
approaches and
which works best.

Don't you all think we could write this kind of
specifications over
the wiki with examples (images) and justification for each
desission?


>  * Improving/creating the wizzards...
>  * Looking at the color-scheme again, and improving
it.
this is related to my previous comment, we should work in
parallel the
color-scheme with all the UI.

>  * A code-cleanup and checking if everything is up to
the latest Rails
>   standards...
>  * A check of the documentation of GiP1, and updating
it where needed...
>  * Releasing the Diff, Weaver & PositionRange libs
as gems and maybe
>   implementing them in C++ for speed-gains
>
>  Etcetera. And then soon Manta will be very usable,
stable and mature...
>
>  Beyond that there is much possible, and much open. A
new version
>  perhaps: like splitting Manta into seperate modules,
creating an API,
>  and what not more... Maybe even a layout for use on
e-paper 
>
wow, you are travelling to the future latelly and I like
that...
although you've always talked about modules, it seems closer
now!

I've also been thinking about some kind of theme-engine, is
it easilly
possible? this way we would separate the UI design from the
core.

>  But for now the fast-track leads towards Manta going
live!
>
>  I've added most of the tasks to the tracker of our
Sourceforge-
>  page: http:/
/sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=78643
>
>  We will be using it a lot more now that we're with
more people. And
>  I'd suggest that from now on we add every task we do,
or want to see
>  done to it & assign it to ourselves...
>
Ok, great. I'll look arround a little more and then pickup
or asign
myself some tasks.

>  Other good things are: Weekly commits, all
communication via this
>  mailing-list, and as said, the tracker 
>
>  So far,
>
>  Wybo Wiersma
>


It's good to be back, at least to be back to LL!

ps: happy past LL day!!!

-- 
Bruno

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