Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary file access denied on Windows

I'm afraid it's just not that simple. Lucene is not a
server application
as you claimed in your first reply - it's a java based
search library.
Just because it's most often used on servers does not
equate to it
always being used on servers for which disabling the index
service is a
reasonable thing to do. We use it in a desktop application
in addition
to server applications, and being a java based application
we want to
neither have to tell our clients to disable indexing, or
tortoisesvn, or
any other software they may have, nor to have to insert
something into
the registry (if indeed such a thing exists). 

Now, I'm not expecting lucene to be able to recover if a
virus scanner
decides to mangle an index file or any other such extreme
behavior, but
I do expect it to behave correctly in the face of what I
believe is a
common enough issue on a very commonly used OS. While it
would be ideal
for Java itself to workaround the issue I don't think we
can expect that
to happen for a while.


Our few choices now are to have a custom directory which has
the simple
workaround in it, patch lucene everytime we have a new
release, or
ignore the issue and have customers complain. While patching
lucene is
possible for me I personally think this a worthy enough
issue to be
included into lucene proper.


Regards,

Bruce Ritchie 


-----Original Message-----
From: robert engels [mailto:rengelsix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 4:13 PM
To: java-devlucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary file
access denied
on Windows

Start -> Administrative Tools -> Windows Indexing
Service -> Disable

On Sep 13, 2006, at 3:09 PM, eks dev wrote:

> not promoting, "let lucene fix all Winblows
problems", just saying, if

> someone has cool, simple trick in patch form, that
hurts nobody, would

> be nice to accept it. Enough people burned their
fingers on this one
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Chris Hostetter <hossman_lucenefucit.org>
> To: java-devlucene.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September, 2006 10:04:05 PM
> Subject: RE: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary
file access 
> denied on Windows
>
> : While what you say is true about indexing should be
disabled, that
> : really doesn't solve the actual issue.
Administrators of 
> applications
> : using lucene often do not have control over the
actual machine and 
> thus
> : cannot determine what is and is not installed.
Besides that, many of

> us
>
> no, but they can st the operating params of the
software they support 
> -- as far as i can tell based on what i've read about
the issue, the 
> problem stems from software that does what seems to be
the equivilent 
> of trying to open any file that has recently been
closed by any other 
> app ... as a java library Lucene shouldn't be expected
to guard 
> against that any more then it should be expected to
guard against the 
> possibility of people randmoly renaming or deleting
files in the index

> directory -- Lucene makes some files, and it expects to
manage them 
> without interference from anything else -- as long as
that expectation

> is documented (and i'll admit, those expectations
could be documented 
> more thoroughly) then i think our work here is done.
>
> Dealing withthis problem becomes the topic of a FAQ
about the cause 
> with a pointer to a Wiki explaining the details and
(*hopefully*) a 
> list of crazy registry hacks you can use to disable it
on a per 
> directory basis.
>
> (DISCLAIMER: I am not saying such hacks exist, merely
that i hope some

> method of disabling this "feature" exists
and if it does pointeres on 
> how to do so would be useful)
>
>
>
> -Hoss
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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The proper solution is to have your software installer
disable the  
indexing on the directory.

If you don't any index updates are going to be abysmally
slow anyway  
- and if you do a lot you will bring your clients systems to
their  
knees (sounds like a bad situation for them).

You should also document in the installation guide for your
software  
the requirements, and how certain software packages
(indexers and  
virus scanners) should be disable on the your software
packages data  
directories.

On Sep 13, 2006, at 3:37 PM, Bruce Ritchie wrote:

> I'm afraid it's just not that simple. Lucene is not a
server  
> application
> as you claimed in your first reply - it's a java based
search library.
> Just because it's most often used on servers does not
equate to it
> always being used on servers for which disabling the
index service  
> is a
> reasonable thing to do. We use it in a desktop
application in addition
> to server applications, and being a java based
application we want to
> neither have to tell our clients to disable indexing,
or  
> tortoisesvn, or
> any other software they may have, nor to have to insert
something into
> the registry (if indeed such a thing exists).
>
> Now, I'm not expecting lucene to be able to recover if
a virus scanner
> decides to mangle an index file or any other such
extreme behavior,  
> but
> I do expect it to behave correctly in the face of what
I believe is a
> common enough issue on a very commonly used OS. While
it would be  
> ideal
> for Java itself to workaround the issue I don't think
we can expect  
> that
> to happen for a while.
>
>
> Our few choices now are to have a custom directory
which has the  
> simple
> workaround in it, patch lucene everytime we have a new
release, or
> ignore the issue and have customers complain. While
patching lucene is
> possible for me I personally think this a worthy enough
issue to be
> included into lucene proper.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Ritchie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robert engels [mailto:rengelsix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 4:13 PM
> To: java-devlucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary
file access  
> denied
> on Windows
>
> Start -> Administrative Tools -> Windows Indexing
Service -> Disable
>
> On Sep 13, 2006, at 3:09 PM, eks dev wrote:
>
>> not promoting, "let lucene fix all Winblows
problems", just  
>> saying, if
>
>> someone has cool, simple trick in patch form, that
hurts nobody,  
>> would
>
>> be nice to accept it. Enough people burned their
fingers on this one
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Chris Hostetter <hossman_lucenefucit.org>
>> To: java-devlucene.apache.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September, 2006 10:04:05 PM
>> Subject: RE: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665)
temporary file access
>> denied on Windows
>>
>> : While what you say is true about indexing should
be disabled, that
>> : really doesn't solve the actual issue.
Administrators of
>> applications
>> : using lucene often do not have control over the
actual machine and
>> thus
>> : cannot determine what is and is not installed.
Besides that,  
>> many of
>
>> us
>>
>> no, but they can st the operating params of the
software they support
>> -- as far as i can tell based on what i've read
about the issue, the 
>> problem stems from software that does what seems to
be the equivilent
>> of trying to open any file that has recently been
closed by any other
>> app ... as a java library Lucene shouldn't be
expected to guard
>> against that any more then it should be expected to
guard against the
>> possibility of people randmoly renaming or deleting
files in the  
>> index
>
>> directory -- Lucene makes some files, and it
expects to manage them
>> without interference from anything else -- as long
as that  
>> expectation
>
>> is documented (and i'll admit, those expectations
could be documented
>> more thoroughly) then i think our work here is
done.
>>
>> Dealing withthis problem becomes the topic of a FAQ
about the cause
>> with a pointer to a Wiki explaining the details and
(*hopefully*) a
>> list of crazy registry hacks you can use to disable
it on a per
>> directory basis.
>>
>> (DISCLAIMER: I am not saying such hacks exist,
merely that i hope  
>> some
>
>> method of disabling this "feature"
exists and if it does pointeres on
>> how to do so would be useful)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Hoss
>>
>>
>>
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---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribelucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-helplucene.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribelucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-helplucene.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribelucene.apache.org
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>
>
>
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