disk suggestions for large-scale maia implementation

Hello,

I'm planning a reasonably large maia implementation --
about 3000 
users.  I've got two mail relays which will run
amavisd-maia and I'm 
purchasing a small box as a web server -- something like a
dl360, 3.8Gz 
Xeon.

What I'm struggling to size appropriately is my backend
database 
server.  I'm looking at a dual core Opteron system with at
least 4GB of 
RAM.  But I don't know that much about disk topologies for
MySQL.  I 
know enough about Oracle tuning to know that more spindles =
faster, 
which I assume is pretty universal in database world.

We accept about 60,000 emails in a day.  That's a
substantial amount of 
transactions.  What I'm trying to decide is between one of
three options...

1.  six 72GB 10K  SAS drives, raid 1+0 or 5+1
2.  four 146GB 15K Ultra320 Drives, Raid 1+0 or 5+1
3.  some space on an EMT Clariion; dual-path fiber; as much
space as 
needed pulled out of a six-disk raid 5 chunk.

I'm not sure how much of a performance hit doing 5+1 is on
MySQL and I'm 
also not sure if SAN storage is fast enough.  Any MySQL
gurus out there 
with experience, thoughts on this stuff?

Thanks,

Aaron Bennett
Sr. Unix Systems Administrator
Clark University


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Aaron Bennett wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm planning a reasonably large maia implementation --
about 3000
> users.  I've got two mail relays which will run
amavisd-maia and I'm
> purchasing a small box as a web server -- something
like a dl360, 3.8Gz
> Xeon.

> We accept about 60,000 emails in a day.  That's a
substantial amount of
> transactions.  What I'm trying to decide is between
one of three options...

In my experience, everyone worries too much about the
database.  Let's ask
another question: Has anyone had any database load problems
yet?  

I'm just guessing, but I think any of those solutions will
work fine. I've run
25k to 50k messages through a single server that housed
sql/web/amavisd-maia...
everything.   1GB RAM, 2 software mirrored SATA 10k Raptors.

On a similar note; In my experience a set of SATA WD Raptors
has smoked a
similar Ultra320 setup.  I thought SCSI was supposed to be
the champ here; has
anyone else seen this?

A project I'd like to set up is to make a test feed to pump
as much mail through
a server as possible to make some benchmarks.  Does anyone
have any hardware to
donate? 

- --
David Morton
Maia Mailguard                        - http://www.maiamailguard
.com
Morton Software Design and Consulting - http://www.dgrmm.net
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I should have my servers in the next week or so and I'd
like to put  
Maia through its paces before moving any production systems
to it.   
Are there any benchmark/stress-testing programs specifically
for  
virus and spam scanners?  I've used smtp-sink and postal in
the past,  
but they just send random messages.  If there's not, I
guess I can  
collect a bunch of spam and viruses and just write a couple
of  
scripts to send hundreds of copies to random test accounts. 
David,  
(or anyone else out there) if you've got specific tests
you'd like me  
to run, just let me know.  Here is the config for my
servers:

Amavis/clam/spamassassin will run on 6 Dell 850s (3Ghz P4
Dualcore;  
2GB RAM)
Maia web interface will be on 4 Dell 2850s (2 x 2.6Ghz Xeon;
2GB RAM)
MySQL will be on a Sun v440 (4 x 1Ghz USIIIi; 8GB RAM)

-Eric


#########################################################
Eric Pierce, RHCE                  Phone: (813) 974-8868
Academic Computing                 Fax:   (813) 974-1799
University of South Florida        Email: epierceusf.edu



On May 18, 2006, at 12:44 PM, David Morton wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Aaron Bennett wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm planning a reasonably large maia
implementation -- about 3000
>> users.  I've got two mail relays which will run
amavisd-maia and I'm
>> purchasing a small box as a web server -- something
like a dl360,  
>> 3.8Gz
>> Xeon.
>
>> We accept about 60,000 emails in a day.  That's a
substantial  
>> amount of
>> transactions.  What I'm trying to decide is
between one of three  
>> options...
>
> In my experience, everyone worries too much about the
database.   
> Let's ask
> another question: Has anyone had any database load
problems yet?  
>
> I'm just guessing, but I think any of those solutions
will work  
> fine. I've run
> 25k to 50k messages through a single server that housed
sql/web/ 
> amavisd-maia...
> everything.   1GB RAM, 2 software mirrored SATA 10k
Raptors.
>
> On a similar note; In my experience a set of SATA WD
Raptors has  
> smoked a
> similar Ultra320 setup.  I thought SCSI was supposed to
be the  
> champ here; has
> anyone else seen this?
>
> A project I'd like to set up is to make a test feed to
pump as much  
> mail through
> a server as possible to make some benchmarks.  Does
anyone have any  
> hardware to
> donate? 
>
> - --
> David Morton
> Maia Mailguard                        - http://www.maiamailguard
.com
> Morton Software Design and Consulting - http://www.dgrmm.net
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

>
>
iD8DBQFEbKR/SIxC85HZHLMRApTBAJ9JrcOp828Sd1M1oQfJKNKfovI2XQCf
e05r
> suaKiitSazvM1+MD/gEqTSI=
> =y1RD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Maia-users mailing list
> Maia-usersrenaissoft.com
> http://www.renaissoft.com/mailman/listinfo/maia-users

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On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 11:44 -0500, David Morton wrote:

> In my experience, everyone worries too much about the
database.  Let's ask
> another question: Has anyone had any database load
problems yet?  

Since you asked: yes, I have. When the expire-quarantine
process runs,
it often happens that mail is delayed because connections to
the
database time out while that is running. The weekly reminder
script also
slows things down noticeably.

--Greg


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Greg Woods wrote:
>
>
> Since you asked: yes, I have. When the
expire-quarantine process runs,
> it often happens that mail is delayed because
connections to the
> database time out while that is running. The weekly
reminder script also
> slows things down noticeably.
>
> --Greg
>
>
>   
That is exactly what I'm hoping to avoid.  Can you share
some more 
details about your setup?  How many emails do you handle per
day, what 
is the size of your database, what sort of server/s are you
running?

Best,

Aaron Bennett

-- 
Aaron Bennett
Sr. Unix Systems Administrator
Clark University ITS
abennettclarku.edu     |     508.781.7315

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On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 17:25 -0400, Aaron Bennett wrote:
>  How many emails do you handle per day

I haven't had the stats running for a while. I'm in the
middle of
converting over to newer, faster servers. But we have about
1200 users.

> , what 
> is the size of your database

It's about 4GB at the moment. I expire the ham cache after
two days and
the quarantine caches after 7 days.

> , what sort of server/s are you running?

It's a dual Xeon (32-bit) system with IDE drives and
software RAID1. I
am replicating the database to another identical server via
MySQL
replication (my big worry about the database is not
performance, but the
fact that it is potentially a single point of failure). The
database
machine also runs the web server, and farms out inbound SMTP
connections
to other servers that do the scanning and mail forwarding
(uses Linux
Virtual Server).

The new servers will use DRBD to replicate (more efficient,
and two-way
as well) and will be dual 64-bit Xeons with a hardware
RAID5. GiGE
connections, the works. I could build a small supercomputer
out of our
new mail servers  Massive
overkill, but should remove all worries
about load for some time to come.

--Greg


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Greg, Xeons vary a great deal (500MHz up to almost 4GHz
now), same with 
IDE disk performance and size. I don't think I can make any
judgments 
with the limited information about your current setup.

One thing that I have encountered with a setup that relies
heavily on 
MySQL (like most maia setups) is that the default MySQL
settings are not 
going to cut it on a high traffic server. At a minimum the
max 
connections needs to be increased from the default 100
(something Greg 
may be running into from his description), the table cache
and key 
buffers should also be increased to speed up query times.

A good tool to help get the most out of your MySQL database
is mysqlard 
(http://gert.sos.be/en/).
I'd recommend checking it out as it can give 
some pretty good insight into how MySQL is performing as
well as tips to 
help improve performance.

-Blake

Greg Woods wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 17:25 -0400, Aaron Bennett wrote:
>   
>>  How many emails do you handle per day
>>     
>
> I haven't had the stats running for a while. I'm in
the middle of
> converting over to newer, faster servers. But we have
about 1200 users.
>
>   
>> , what 
>> is the size of your database
>>     
>
> It's about 4GB at the moment. I expire the ham cache
after two days and
> the quarantine caches after 7 days.
>
>   
>> , what sort of server/s are you running?
>>     
>
> It's a dual Xeon (32-bit) system with IDE drives and
software RAID1. I
> am replicating the database to another identical server
via MySQL
> replication (my big worry about the database is not
performance, but the
> fact that it is potentially a single point of failure).
The database
> machine also runs the web server, and farms out inbound
SMTP connections
> to other servers that do the scanning and mail
forwarding (uses Linux
> Virtual Server).
>
> The new servers will use DRBD to replicate (more
efficient, and two-way
> as well) and will be dual 64-bit Xeons with a hardware
RAID5. GiGE
> connections, the works. I could build a small
supercomputer out of our
> new mail servers  Massive
overkill, but should remove all worries
> about load for some time to come.
>
> --Greg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maia-users mailing list
> Maia-usersrenaissoft.com
> http://www.renaissoft.com/mailman/listinfo/maia-users
>   

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