Debian-Junior with cdd-dev (Was: Desktop-profiles and CDD)

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008, Ben Armstrong wrote (on Debian Junior
list):

>> BTW, the problem
>> of removal will not happen when using cdd-dev
because cdd-dev checks
>> whether dependencies exist before building the
final control file.
>> So the resulting meta packages can be validly
installed on package
>> building time.
>
> Nice.

I just detected one more issue to discuss before I start
turning the single meta
packages of Debian Junior into build all from one source
using cdd-dev:  The
Debian Edu people convinced me that strong
"Depends" is not a good idea for meta
packages because it forces you to deinstall the meta package
if you want to get
rid of a single dependency.  There were other issues that
let them give
preference of "Recommends" instead of
"Depends" which were previosely discussed.
In consequence Petter Reinholdtsen wrote a script that turns
every occurence
of "Depends" in a tasks file into
"Recommends".  Later I took over this
script for the general cdd-dev (by factorising it to build
more than only
Debian Edu).  I did not widthdraw the decision to change the
Depends in
Recommends because it seemed reasonable.

Reading your junior-arcade/README.Debian which says:

   This package is a metapackage; it depends on several
other packages to make
   them be installed when it is installed. If you want to
remove one of those
   packages, you have to remove this package as well. The
other packages won't be
   touched.

I wonder if you are happy with this decision.  IMHO there
are two
options:

   1. You are fine with turning Depends into Recommends
      --> Results in a quick and flawless port from
single packages
          to cdd-dev
   2. You insist on the former behaviour and stick to strong
Depends
      --> Would need to touch debian-edu and debian-med
source to
          verify that there are no explicite Depends any
more and
          turn them into Recommends manually
      --> Change cdd-dev to accept Depends as they are.

I just want to discuss this here, because you might have
reasons to
stick to the Depends which is really fine.  In principle we
just
waste a feature in cdd-dev to say I *really* want a depends
from this
package - there might be strong reasons even if Recommends
is normally
fine since even apt-get considers Recommends as default
installation
candidates.  I'm also willing to do the needed changes - but
currently
it is somehow bad timing.  We are short before a freeze and
chances
are good that we miss something that might have a stronger
influence
than we expect.

So my plan for a future rewrite (which might be needed
anyway because
we have to cope with the "differnet packages on
different archs"
problem) is to enable strong Depends somehow (perhaps via
command
line option or even by default and editors of tasks files
will be
asked to explicitely express what they really mean.

In short: If you want Debian Junior packages builded with
cdd-dev
in Lenny you have to live with the Depends -> Recommends
feature.
If you can't live with this, please be patient until
Lenny+1.

Kind regards

         Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de


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ON WED, JUN 04, 2008 AT 12:12:05PM +0200, ANDREAS TILLE
WROTE:
> READING YOUR JUNIOR-ARCADE/README.DEBIAN WHICH SAYS:
>
>   THIS PACKAGE IS A METAPACKAGE; IT DEPENDS ON SEVERAL
OTHER PACKAGES 
>   TO MAKE THEM BE INSTALLED WHEN IT IS INSTALLED. IF
YOU WANT TO 
>   REMOVE ONE OF THOSE PACKAGES, YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THIS
PACKAGE AS 
>   WELL. THE OTHER PACKAGES WON'T BE TOUCHED.

YOU MIGHT ALSO WANT TO CONSIDER THAT WHILE THE ABOVE IS TRUE
USING 
APT-GET, WHEN YOU USE APTITUDE IT WILL AUTOMATICALLY
DEINSTALL THOSE 
OTHER PACKAGES WHEN REMOVING THE EXPLICITLY INSTALLED
PACKAGE.

SINCE BEFORE THE RELEASE OF ETCH, APTITUDE HAS BEEN THE
OFFICIAL 
RECOMMENDED INSTALL TOOL (DESPITE MANY USERS AND DEVELOPERS
STILL 
PERSONALLY RECOMMENDING APT-GET).

SO EVEN IF KEEPING YOUR CURRENT HARD DEPENDENCIES, YOU MIGHT
CONSIDER 
DROPPING THAT (ARGUABLY BOGUS) PROMISE FROM THE
DESCRIPTION.


KIND REGARDS,

  - JONAS

- -- 
* JONAS SMEDEGAARD - IDEALIST OG INTERNET-ARKITEKT
* TLF.: +45 40843136  WEBSITE: HTTP://DR.JONES.DK/

  - ENDEN ER NæR: HTTP://WWW.SHIBUMI.ORG/EOTI.HTM
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Hi,

if you like have a look at

    http://cdd
.alioth.debian.org/junior/tasks/

which was rendered from recently checked in tasks files at

   
svn://svn.debian.org/cdd/projects/junior/trunk/debian-junior
/

I'll keep on posting about this topic ...

Kind regards

       Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de


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On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
Andreas Tille <tillearki.de> wrote:
>    1. You are fine with turning Depends into
Recommends
>       --> Results in a quick and flawless port from
single packages
>           to cdd-dev

This is fine.  There is nothing in Junior we absolutely
can't do
without, so recommends is appropriate.

Ben


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