Recent PHP upgrade killed Mediawiki?

I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box and it has been
working fine 
for a while now.  I recently updated the ports on FreeBSD
which means 
that apache, php, php modules, and a few other things were
updated and 
from that time forward mediawiki stopped working, I just get
a blank 
page.  What is strange is that all of my other php
application still 
work, mediawiki is the only application that stopped
working.

The only thing that I can find is this error in apaches
logs;

[Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client 10.1.1.58] PHP
Fatal error:  
Cannot access protected property DatabaseMysql::$mOut in 
/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on line
415

[Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid 15919 exit
signal 
Segmentation fault (11)
[Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid 15917 exit
signal 
Segmentation fault (11)

Any Ideas as to what happened?

Regards,
Tim


_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I would start by
disabling
those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen at least one
issue that
threw the same error and ended up being an incompatible
extension.

On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
>
> I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box and it has
been working fine
> for a while now.  I recently updated the ports on
FreeBSD which means
> that apache, php, php modules, and a few other things
were updated and
> from that time forward mediawiki stopped working, I
just get a blank
> page.  What is strange is that all of my other php
application still
> work, mediawiki is the only application that stopped
working.
>
> The only thing that I can find is this error in apaches
logs;
>
> [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client 10.1.1.58]
PHP Fatal error:
> Cannot access protected property DatabaseMysql::$mOut
in
> /data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on
line 415
>
> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid 15919
exit signal
> Segmentation fault (11)
> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid 15917
exit signal
> Segmentation fault (11)
>
> Any Ideas as to what happened?
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
_______________________________________________
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MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
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Hello Tim,

A segmentation fault normally means that the program is
trying to
access a part of your RAM which does not exist.

If the server can afford to be done for a bit of time
(transfer
everything over to another temporarily, or something
similar), I would
run Memtest86+ on it.

I hope that this helps,
Kasimir

On 1/1/07, Matt <datahead4gmail.com> wrote:
> If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I would
start by disabling
> those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen at least
one issue that
> threw the same error and ended up being an incompatible
extension.
>
> On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box and it
has been working fine
> > for a while now.  I recently updated the ports on
FreeBSD which means
> > that apache, php, php modules, and a few other
things were updated and
> > from that time forward mediawiki stopped working,
I just get a blank
> > page.  What is strange is that all of my other php
application still
> > work, mediawiki is the only application that
stopped working.
> >
> > The only thing that I can find is this error in
apaches logs;
> >
> > [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client
10.1.1.58] PHP Fatal error:
> > Cannot access protected property
DatabaseMysql::$mOut in
> >
/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on line
415
> >
> > [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid
15919 exit signal
> > Segmentation fault (11)
> > [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid
15917 exit signal
> > Segmentation fault (11)
> >
> > Any Ideas as to what happened?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>


-- 
Kasimir Gabert
_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Matt,

I am not running anything other than the base install of
mediawiki.  I 
have added a couple of templates and changed the logo in the
upper 
left-hand corner but other than that, nothing.  Are there
extensions 
that come with the base distro that I my not be aware of and
where do I 
find them?

Tim


On 1/1/2007 11:59 AM, Matt wrote:
> If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I would
start by disabling
> those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen at least
one issue that
> threw the same error and ended up being an incompatible
extension.
>
> On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box and it
has been working fine
>> for a while now.  I recently updated the ports on
FreeBSD which means
>> that apache, php, php modules, and a few other
things were updated and
>> from that time forward mediawiki stopped working, I
just get a blank
>> page.  What is strange is that all of my other php
application still
>> work, mediawiki is the only application that
stopped working.
>>
>> The only thing that I can find is this error in
apaches logs;
>>
>> [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client
10.1.1.58] PHP Fatal error:
>> Cannot access protected property
DatabaseMysql::$mOut in
>> /data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php
on line 415
>>
>> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid 15919
exit signal
>> Segmentation fault (11)
>> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid 15917
exit signal
>> Segmentation fault (11)
>>
>> Any Ideas as to what happened?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>   
_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

I was thinking about that but a memory test came back clean.
 This 
system has several applications running on it; mysql
(serving several 
databases), postfix, dns gallery2, samba, coppermine, etc.
It's a busy 
little system   And the
only application that seems to be having a 
problem is mediawiki, everything else performs fine.  The
only change is 
updating the ports on the system which included an upgrade
to PHP5 to 
the latest rev.  Not sure how that plays into it as all of
my other PHP 
applications are working fine.

Anything else?  I am willing to try anything to solve
this.....

Tim


On 1/1/2007 7:40 PM, Kasimir Gabert wrote:
> Hello Tim,
>
> A segmentation fault normally means that the program is
trying to
> access a part of your RAM which does not exist.
>
> If the server can afford to be done for a bit of time
(transfer
> everything over to another temporarily, or something
similar), I would
> run Memtest86+ on it.
>
> I hope that this helps,
> Kasimir
>
> On 1/1/07, Matt <datahead4gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I would
start by disabling
>> those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen at
least one issue that
>> threw the same error and ended up being an
incompatible extension.
>>
>> On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box and
it has been working fine
>>> for a while now.  I recently updated the ports
on FreeBSD which means
>>> that apache, php, php modules, and a few other
things were updated and
>>> from that time forward mediawiki stopped
working, I just get a blank
>>> page.  What is strange is that all of my other
php application still
>>> work, mediawiki is the only application that
stopped working.
>>>
>>> The only thing that I can find is this error in
apaches logs;
>>>
>>> [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client
10.1.1.58] PHP Fatal error:
>>> Cannot access protected property
DatabaseMysql::$mOut in
>>>
/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on line
415
>>>
>>> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid
15919 exit signal
>>> Segmentation fault (11)
>>> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid
15917 exit signal
>>> Segmentation fault (11)
>>>
>>> Any Ideas as to what happened?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>>> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>
>>     
>
>
>   
_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

There aren't any extensions (that I know of) in the base
distro that
are enabled by default.  You mentioned installing from ports
- is
MediaWiki being installed from the ports tree as well? 
Also, are you
using any kind of PHP accelerator (like APC or eAccelerator)
and if so
does the problem still happen?

I run MediaWiki on FreeBSD as well, and I haven't had any
problems
with it yet.  However, my install is still using PHP 5.1.6
so if there
is an issue with 5.2 I may just not have experienced it yet.

The only other thing I can think of is some wacky dependency
from the
portupgrades that left some component in an unstable state. 
How did
you perform the portupgrade?  Did you use any of the
automated tools
or did you do them all by hand?  I have seen the odd issue
on fbsd
with port upgrades going awry when done in the wrong order.

Matt

On 1/2/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I am not running anything other than the base install
of mediawiki.  I
> have added a couple of templates and changed the logo
in the upper
> left-hand corner but other than that, nothing.  Are
there extensions
> that come with the base distro that I my not be aware
of and where do I
> find them?
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 1/1/2007 11:59 AM, Matt wrote:
> > If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I would
start by disabling
> > those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen at
least one issue that
> > threw the same error and ended up being an
incompatible extension.
> >
> > On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box and
it has been working fine
> >> for a while now.  I recently updated the ports
on FreeBSD which means
> >> that apache, php, php modules, and a few other
things were updated and
> >> from that time forward mediawiki stopped
working, I just get a blank
> >> page.  What is strange is that all of my other
php application still
> >> work, mediawiki is the only application that
stopped working.
> >>
> >> The only thing that I can find is this error
in apaches logs;
> >>
> >> [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client
10.1.1.58] PHP Fatal error:
> >> Cannot access protected property
DatabaseMysql::$mOut in
> >>
/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on line
415
> >>
> >> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid
15919 exit signal
> >> Segmentation fault (11)
> >> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child pid
15917 exit signal
> >> Segmentation fault (11)
> >>
> >> Any Ideas as to what happened?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Tim
> >>
> >>
> >>
_______________________________________________
> >> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> >> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> >> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Hello Tim,

What happens when you run a clean install of MediaWiki (in
either
another directory or in another virtual host) -- does the
error occur?
 This will let you know wether the problem is in your
configuration,
or in some dependency.

I hope that this helps,
Kasimir

On 1/2/07, Matt <datahead4gmail.com> wrote:
> There aren't any extensions (that I know of) in the
base distro that
> are enabled by default.  You mentioned installing from
ports - is
> MediaWiki being installed from the ports tree as well? 
Also, are you
> using any kind of PHP accelerator (like APC or
eAccelerator) and if so
> does the problem still happen?
>
> I run MediaWiki on FreeBSD as well, and I haven't had
any problems
> with it yet.  However, my install is still using PHP
5.1.6 so if there
> is an issue with 5.2 I may just not have experienced it
yet.
>
> The only other thing I can think of is some wacky
dependency from the
> portupgrades that left some component in an unstable
state.  How did
> you perform the portupgrade?  Did you use any of the
automated tools
> or did you do them all by hand?  I have seen the odd
issue on fbsd
> with port upgrades going awry when done in the wrong
order.
>
> Matt
>
> On 1/2/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
> > Matt,
> >
> > I am not running anything other than the base
install of mediawiki.  I
> > have added a couple of templates and changed the
logo in the upper
> > left-hand corner but other than that, nothing. 
Are there extensions
> > that come with the base distro that I my not be
aware of and where do I
> > find them?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > On 1/1/2007 11:59 AM, Matt wrote:
> > > If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I
would start by disabling
> > > those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen
at least one issue that
> > > threw the same error and ended up being an
incompatible extension.
> > >
> > > On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box
and it has been working fine
> > >> for a while now.  I recently updated the
ports on FreeBSD which means
> > >> that apache, php, php modules, and a few
other things were updated and
> > >> from that time forward mediawiki stopped
working, I just get a blank
> > >> page.  What is strange is that all of my
other php application still
> > >> work, mediawiki is the only application
that stopped working.
> > >>
> > >> The only thing that I can find is this
error in apaches logs;
> > >>
> > >> [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error]
[client 10.1.1.58] PHP Fatal error:
> > >> Cannot access protected property
DatabaseMysql::$mOut in
> > >>
/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on line
415
> > >>
> > >> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child
pid 15919 exit signal
> > >> Segmentation fault (11)
> > >> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child
pid 15917 exit signal
> > >> Segmentation fault (11)
> > >>
> > >> Any Ideas as to what happened?
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Tim
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
_______________________________________________
> > >> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > >> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> > >> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
_______________________________________________
> > > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > > MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>


-- 
Kasimir Gabert
_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Thank you Matt for pointing me in the right direction. 
Though I don't 
have a solution I do have a work around.

To start with I do not run the ports version of mediawiki. 
I use the 
tar-ball distro from mediawiki's web site.  I upgraded my
system using 
the portupgrade tool and I too have see problems with the
order that 
portupgrade compiles packages.  In this case however the
problem child 
turned out to be the new version of eAccelerator (v0.9.5). 
I have used 
eAccelerator for so long without any issues that I totally
forgot about 
it.  I tried to recompile eAccelerator after all of the
other updates 
were complete and that mad no difference.  It appears that
there is some 
issue with mediawiki, php v5.2.0, and eAccelerator v.0.9.5. 
Seeing that 
none of my other php applications are having an issue I am
guessing that 
there is a bug somewhere in mediawiki's script that checks
to see if you 
are logged in or not.  After out many different ideas my
workaround 
ended up being to add the following in my .htaccess file in
my mediawiki 
directory;

php_value eaccelerator.filter "*.php 
!/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/*.php"

Not sure how that allows it to work as I still see
mediawiki's php 
scripts being processed by eAccelerator, but it's working so
I am not 
going to complain 

Thanks again Matt  and thanks to everyone else who gave me
another idea 
to try.

Tim


On 1/2/2007 8:04 AM, Matt wrote:
> There aren't any extensions (that I know of) in the
base distro that
> are enabled by default.  You mentioned installing from
ports - is
> MediaWiki being installed from the ports tree as well? 
Also, are you
> using any kind of PHP accelerator (like APC or
eAccelerator) and if so
> does the problem still happen?
>
> I run MediaWiki on FreeBSD as well, and I haven't had
any problems
> with it yet.  However, my install is still using PHP
5.1.6 so if there
> is an issue with 5.2 I may just not have experienced it
yet.
>
> The only other thing I can think of is some wacky
dependency from the
> portupgrades that left some component in an unstable
state.  How did
> you perform the portupgrade?  Did you use any of the
automated tools
> or did you do them all by hand?  I have seen the odd
issue on fbsd
> with port upgrades going awry when done in the wrong
order.
>
> Matt
>
> On 1/2/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> Matt,
>>
>> I am not running anything other than the base
install of mediawiki.  I
>> have added a couple of templates and changed the
logo in the upper
>> left-hand corner but other than that, nothing.  Are
there extensions
>> that come with the base distro that I my not be
aware of and where do I
>> find them?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On 1/1/2007 11:59 AM, Matt wrote:
>>     
>>> If you are using any MediaWiki extensions, I
would start by disabling
>>> those first to see if it fixes it.  I've seen
at least one issue that
>>> threw the same error and ended up being an
incompatible extension.
>>>
>>> On 1/1/07, Tim Hogan <timhoganzoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I run a mediawiki v1.8.2 on a FreeBSD box
and it has been working fine
>>>> for a while now.  I recently updated the
ports on FreeBSD which means
>>>> that apache, php, php modules, and a few
other things were updated and
>>>> from that time forward mediawiki stopped
working, I just get a blank
>>>> page.  What is strange is that all of my
other php application still
>>>> work, mediawiki is the only application
that stopped working.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing that I can find is this
error in apaches logs;
>>>>
>>>> [Sat Dec 30 01:55:17 2006] [error] [client
10.1.1.58] PHP Fatal error:
>>>> Cannot access protected property
DatabaseMysql::$mOut in
>>>>
/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/Database.php on line
415
>>>>
>>>> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child
pid 15919 exit signal
>>>> Segmentation fault (11)
>>>> [Sat Dec 30 02:09:44 2006] [notice] child
pid 15917 exit signal
>>>> Segmentation fault (11)
>>>>
>>>> Any Ideas as to what happened?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>>>> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>>> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>   
_______________________________________________
MediaWiki-l mailing list
MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Hi Tim!

It seems that eAccelerator under FreeBSD has the same Bugs
as the 
Windows version. Version 0.9.5 crashes if protected
functions are used. 
See ticket #231 on the eAccelerator bugtracker. Sorry for
not pointing 
to this earlier, but I never heard that this occurred on a
system 
running a non-windows OS.

> I tried to recompile eAccelerator after all of the
other updates 
> were complete and that mad no difference.

The latest snapshot shall have a fix for it, but I haven't
tried yet.

> It appears that there is some 
> issue with mediawiki, php v5.2.0, and eAccelerator
v.0.9.5.  Seeing that 
> none of my other php applications are having an issue I
am guessing that 
> there is a bug somewhere in mediawiki's script that
checks to see if you 
> are logged in or not.

JpGraph kills eAccelerator too. Theres no bug in MediaWiki
but in 
eAccelerator.

> After out many different ideas my workaround 
> ended up being to add the following in my .htaccess
file in my mediawiki 
> directory;
> 
> php_value eaccelerator.filter "*.php 
> !/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/*.php"

Disabling it completely works too: 

php_value eaccelerator.enable "0"


Maybe it helps even it's a little late.

Stefan
_______________________________________________
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Thanks for the information.  I now know where the real
problem is and 
that there is a fix on the way.

Tim


On 1/3/2007 9:52 AM, Stefan Wahl wrote:
> Hi Tim!
>
> It seems that eAccelerator under FreeBSD has the same
Bugs as the 
> Windows version. Version 0.9.5 crashes if protected
functions are used. 
> See ticket #231 on the eAccelerator bugtracker. Sorry
for not pointing 
> to this earlier, but I never heard that this occurred
on a system 
> running a non-windows OS.
>
>   
>> I tried to recompile eAccelerator after all of the
other updates 
>> were complete and that mad no difference.
>>     
>
> The latest snapshot shall have a fix for it, but I
haven't tried yet.
>
>   
>> It appears that there is some 
>> issue with mediawiki, php v5.2.0, and eAccelerator
v.0.9.5.  Seeing that 
>> none of my other php applications are having an
issue I am guessing that 
>> there is a bug somewhere in mediawiki's script that
checks to see if you 
>> are logged in or not.
>>     
>
> JpGraph kills eAccelerator too. Theres no bug in
MediaWiki but in 
> eAccelerator.
>
>   
>> After out many different ideas my workaround 
>> ended up being to add the following in my .htaccess
file in my mediawiki 
>> directory;
>>
>> php_value eaccelerator.filter "*.php 
>> !/data/webapps/mediawiki-1.8.2/includes/*.php"
>>     
>
> Disabling it completely works too: 
>
> php_value eaccelerator.enable "0"
>
>
> Maybe it helps even it's a little late.
>
> Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> MediaWiki-lWikimedia.org
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