Events with no duration; and end of daylight saving time

What's the correct way to mark up an hCal for an event
which has no
duration?

And what's the correct way in which to mark up the event
when, at the
end of daylight saving time, clocks go back from 3am to 2am
- as a
single event at 3am?
-- 
Andy Mabbett
                Say "NO!" to compulsory ID
Cards:  <http://www.no2id.net/>

                Free Our Data:  <http://www.freeourd
ata.org.uk>
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On 8/26/06, Andy Mabbett <andypigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:
>
> What's the correct way to mark up an hCal for an event
which has no
> duration?

The only two properties that are required (besides the
class="vevent")
are SUMMARY and DTSTART.

If there is no end-date or duration this can simply be
omitted.

> And what's the correct way in which to mark up the
event when, at the
> end of daylight saving time, clocks go back from 3am to
2am - as a
> single event at 3am?

I don't think this is an issue for hCalendar. If you have
an event
that passes between the start/stop of daylight savings you
have
several options to mark-up the event. (NOTE: this only
effects events
with specifc start/stop TIMES)

Lets assume you live in the USA Central Standard Time zone,
Normally 6
hours ahead of UTC, only 5 hours ahead during day light
saving.

Option 1:
<abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-01-01T12:00:00-0600">Noon,
January
1st 2006</abbr>
<abbr class="dtend"
title="2006-06-01T12:00:00-0500">Noon,
January 1st
2006</abbr>

This explicitly using a timezone offset, because of this you
manually
would have to add the appropriate +/- for the hours off of
UTC. I'm
not sure how importing applications would handle this? they
might
apply those timezone offsets in relation to the CURRENT
timezone
offset - not sure? Option 2 is a better choice.

Assuming we are still in Central Standard Time
Option 2:
<abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-01-01T18:00:00Z">Noon, January
1st 2006</abbr>
<abbr class="dtend"
title="2006-01-01T18:00:00Z">Noon, June 1st
2006</abbr>

Your local application will compute the time of the event
based on the
time in UTC (18:00:00) and adjust it to your current
Timezone (which
SHOULD) also correct because your system clock will be
adjusted based
on Day Light Savings

I hope that helps answer you question?
-brian

-- 
brian suda
http://suda.co.uk
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In message
<21e770780608261633l55cfc621x9493db14acae78camail.gmail.com>, Brian
Suda <brian.sudagmail.com> writes

>On 8/26/06, Andy Mabbett <andypigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:
>>
>> What's the correct way to mark up an hCal for an
event which has no
>> duration?
>
>The only two properties that are required (besides the
class="vevent")
>are SUMMARY and DTSTART.
>
>If there is no end-date or duration this can simply be
omitted.

Thank you.

>> And what's the correct way in which to mark up the
event when, at the
>> end of daylight saving time, clocks go back from
3am to 2am - as a
>> single event at 3am?
>
>I don't think this is an issue for hCalendar. If you
have an event
>that passes between the start/stop of daylight savings
you have
>several options to mark-up the event. (NOTE: this only
effects events
>with specifc start/stop TIMES)

I fear you misunderstand me - I don't mean an event which
overlaps the
time-change; I mean the time-change itself; see 29 October
on:

        http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/diary/indexEXPAND.htm


(draft page; dummy data).

I think I need to add some timezone info to the start and
end times on
that page - how?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
                Say "NO!" to compulsory ID
Cards:  <http://www.no2id.net/>

                Free Our Data:  <http://www.freeourd
ata.org.uk>
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On 8/27/06, Andy Mabbett <andypigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:
> I fear you misunderstand me - I don't mean an event
which overlaps the
> time-change; I mean the time-change itself; see 29
October on:
>
>         http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/diary/indexEXPAND.htm

>
> I think I need to add some timezone info to the start
and end times on
> that page - how?

Well, you can do this several ways, and you'll have to test
it on
various calendar applications to see what happens.

Option 1: Don't use an end date
<abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-10-29T03:00:00">End Daylight
Savings</abbr>

Option 2: Explicit Timezone and a 1 second duration
<abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-10-29T03:00:00-0500">End Daylight
Savings</abbr>
<abbr class="dtend"
title="2006-10-29T02:00:01-0600">Start Normal
Time</abbr>


Semantically, if you are declaring and end-time, then you
should say
what it is an end too.

Option 3: Declare start and end times for ALL of daylight
savings
<abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-??-??T02:00:01">Start Daylight
Saving</abbr>
<abbr class="dtend"
title="2006-10-29T03:00:00">End Daylight
Savings</abbr>

-brian

-- 
brian suda
http://suda.co.uk
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In message
<21e770780608270828j789e363dn662385637d162dc8mail.gmail.com>, Brian
Suda <brian.sudagmail.com> writes

>>I mean the time-change itself; see 29 October on:
>>
>>         http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/diary/indexEXPAND.htm

>>
>
>Well, you can do this several ways, and you'll have to
test it on
>various calendar applications to see what happens.
>
>Option 1: Don't use an end date
><abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-10-29T03:00:00">End Daylight
Savings</abbr>

Thank you. That's what I've done; it seems the simplest.

>Option 2: Explicit Timezone and a 1 second duration
><abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-10-29T03:00:00-0500">End Daylight
>Savings</abbr>
><abbr class="dtend"
title="2006-10-29T02:00:01-0600">Start Normal
Time</abbr>

That's neat, but - though I don't have lots of calendar
apps to try it
on - I can imagine it breaking several!

>Semantically, if you are declaring and end-time, then
you should say
>what it is an end too.
>
>Option 3: Declare start and end times for ALL of
daylight savings
><abbr class="dtstart"
title="2006-??-??T02:00:01">Start Daylight
Saving</abbr>
><abbr class="dtend"
title="2006-10-29T03:00:00">End Daylight
Savings</abbr>

That may be semantically neat, but who, if they're putting
a reminder to
themselves in their paper diary or wall calendar, would
shade in every
day of DST? I simply wish to remind people when to put their
clocks
back; and allow them to easily enter a reminder to do so
into their
calendar app. Most apps that I've used, don't generate a
reminder for
the end of an event.


>> I think I need to add some timezone info to the
start and end times on
>> that page - how?

Done, now - is my mark-up correct (I'm in the UK)?
-- 
Andy Mabbett
                Say "NO!" to compulsory ID
Cards:  <http://www.no2id.net/>

                Free Our Data:  <http://www.freeourd
ata.org.uk>
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On Aug 27, 2006, at 5:10 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> I fear you misunderstand me - I don't mean an event
which overlaps  
> the time-change; I mean the time-change itself; see 29
October on:


Why not:

<div class="vevent">
   <span class="summary">Daylight Savings
Time 2006 (pacific time)</ 
span>
   <span
class="dtstart">2006-04-02T02:00:00-0800</
span>
   <span
class="dtend">2006-10-29T02:00:00-0700</sp
an>
</div>

?

-ryan
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