Microformat's Logos

Hello,
   I was wondering if there had every been any serious
thought to
giving individual microformats logos (for widgets and
buttons and
such, etc).  I created an XOXO logo back when I started the
XOXO Blog
<http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6537/1341
/1600/XOXObadge.png>.  An
aquaintance recently told me that it was rather ugly and
decided he
would try his hand, but of course any of these efforts is
far from
'official'.
   Anyone have any ideas/objections/other material on the
subject?
      -- Singpolyma
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On 26 Sep 2006, at 01:13, Stephen Paul Weber wrote:
> Hello,
>   I was wondering if there had every been any serious
thought to
> giving individual microformats logos (for widgets and
buttons and
> such, etc).

I'm not sure whether it counts as serious thought, but the
issue of  
icons for hCard and hCalendar came up when I published my µf
UI  
mockup a few months back [1]. I took that the view that in
the case  
of hC* it makes most sense for them to adopt icons akin to
their  
desktop cousins: Namely contact cards and calendar
appointment icons.

Generally speaking, I'm anti creating dedicated icons for  
Microformats since the whole point is not that they _are  
microformats_ the point is the _data_ and the purpose of
that data.  
Take Tails as an example, rather than show the µf logo in
the Firefox  
status bar, I'd rather like it to show icons related to the
type of  
microformat found (again, akin to my mock-up).

hAtom? It's a feed format so should really be indicated with
the  
standard feed icon (although I did once create something
utterly  
different [2]).

The other formats, be they new concepts (hResume) or just
never  
iconified before (xFolk) seem well worth thinking about
though.

> I created an XOXO logo back when I started the XOXO
Blog
> <http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6537/1341
/1600/XOXObadge.png>.  An
> aquaintance recently told me that it was rather ugly
and decided he
> would try his hand,

Depending on how strongly people are disliking OPML this
morning  
(),
there is an apparent effort to create a ‘standard OPML  
icon’ [3] . If there's a need, that could possibly be
persuaded into  
becoming a ‘standard outline icon’? Depending on whether
they're  
prepared to open their scope at all, or whether their aim is
to  
promote OPML exclusively.

> but of course any of these efforts is far from
> 'official'.

Well, I never saw if the Microformats Community accepted the
idea,  
but Chris Messina has been pushing for the logo to be
covered and  
protected under a ‘community mark’ concept where effectively
group  
consensus determines acceptable use of the microformats
logo. If  
that's actually been adopted here then I would suspect that
icons for  
individual formats would be ‘official’ when taken under the
same  
community protection.

Ben

[1] http:/
/ben-ward.co.uk/journal/microformats-ui/
[2] http://fl
ickr.com/photos/benward/106037547/
[3] http://www.opmlicons.com/


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2006/9/26, Ben Ward <listsben-ward.co.uk>:
> On 26 Sep 2006, at 01:13, Stephen Paul Weber wrote:
> > Hello,
> >   I was wondering if there had every been any
serious thought to
> > giving individual microformats logos (for widgets
and buttons and
> > such, etc).
>
> I'm not sure whether it counts as serious thought, but
the issue of
> icons for hCard and hCalendar came up when I published
my µf UI
> mockup a few months back [1]. I took that the view that
in the case
> of hC* it makes most sense for them to adopt icons akin
to their
> desktop cousins: Namely contact cards and calendar
appointment icons.
>
> Generally speaking, I'm anti creating dedicated icons
for
> Microformats since the whole point is not that they
_are
> microformats_ the point is the _data_ and the purpose
of that data.
> Take Tails as an example, rather than show the µf logo
in the Firefox
> status bar, I'd rather like it to show icons related to
the type of
> microformat found (again, akin to my mock-up).
>
> hAtom? It's a feed format so should really be indicated
with the
> standard feed icon (although I did once create
something utterly
> different [2]).
>
> The other formats, be they new concepts (hResume) or
just never
> iconified before (xFolk) seem well worth thinking about
though.
>
> > I created an XOXO logo back when I started the
XOXO Blog
> > <http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6537/1341
/1600/XOXObadge.png>.  An
> > aquaintance recently told me that it was rather
ugly and decided he
> > would try his hand,
>
> Depending on how strongly people are disliking OPML
this morning
> (), there
is an apparent effort to create a 'standard OPML
> icon' [3] . If there's a need, that could possibly be
persuaded into
> becoming a 'standard outline icon'? Depending on
whether they're
> prepared to open their scope at all, or whether their
aim is to
> promote OPML exclusively.
>
> > but of course any of these efforts is far from
> > 'official'.
>
> Well, I never saw if the Microformats Community
accepted the idea,
> but Chris Messina has been pushing for the logo to be
covered and
> protected under a 'community mark' concept where
effectively group
> consensus determines acceptable use of the microformats
logo. If
> that's actually been adopted here then I would suspect
that icons for
> individual formats would be 'official' when taken under
the same
> community protection.
>
> Ben
>
> [1] http:/
/ben-ward.co.uk/journal/microformats-ui/
> [2] http://fl
ickr.com/photos/benward/106037547/
> [3] http://www.opmlicons.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microformats-discuss mailing list
> microformats-discussmicroformats.org
> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>
Hi,

In a brand policy for it affermation on the community is a
good way
use a single logo to diffuse it, also more logos may create
confusion.
In this way people teach the new logo on hearts. For more
logo or
products we can adopt more solution.

For example the use of various formats logo like this - most
used -
8x15 pixel logo.
http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/val
id-xhtml.png
http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/valid
-css.png
http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/wcag1
-AAA.png

On the left we can insert the Mf logo and on the right, with
a pixel
font, with hCalendar, hCards.... So, I can create it. What
formats do
You want?

-- 
Simone Onofri

------------------------------------------------------------
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On 26 Sep 2006, at 10:13, Simone Onofri wrote:
> On the left we can insert the Mf logo and on the right,
with a pixel
> font, with hCalendar, hCards.... So, I can create it.
What formats do
> You want?
>
Aha, that's kinda my point. I question the usefulness of
putting a  
microformats logo on a page with ‘hSomething’ text next to
it. What  
does that mean to visitors? Admittedly not a lot less than
putting  
‘XHTML’ and ‘CSS’ in a pretty box, but for users, it surely
makes  
more sense to refer to _Contacts_ and _Events_ respectively,
since  
that is the data they're working with.

I mean that in a general way: Naturally from the point of
view of  
people involved in the microformats community looking to
promote the  
microformats themselves then certainly using the name and
logo makes  
sense but using the ‘technical term’ to indicate the
presence of  
microformat on a page to _end users _ seems like a bad idea.

Ben
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2006/9/26, Ben Ward <listsben-ward.co.uk>:
> On 26 Sep 2006, at 10:13, Simone Onofri wrote:
> > On the left we can insert the Mf logo and on the
right, with a pixel
> > font, with hCalendar, hCards.... So, I can create
it. What formats do
> > You want?
> >
> Aha, that's kinda my point. I question the usefulness
of putting a
> microformats logo on a page with 'hSomething' text next
to it. What
> does that mean to visitors? Admittedly not a lot less
than putting
> 'XHTML' and 'CSS' in a pretty box, but for users, it
surely makes
> more sense to refer to _Contacts_ and _Events_
respectively, since
> that is the data they're working with.
>
> I mean that in a general way: Naturally from the point
of view of
> people involved in the microformats community looking
to promote the
> microformats themselves then certainly using the name
and logo makes
> sense but using the 'technical term' to indicate the
presence of
> microformat on a page to _end users _ seems like a bad
idea.

Thanks for reply Ben,
So, this is not technical but "marketing" for end
users. Also the
presence of a partilular icon (resident on Mf server). Can
track how
many users adopt it, and in which page it uses it.

Simone
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On Sep 26, 2006, at 5:13 AM, Simone Onofri wrote:

> 2006/9/26, Ben Ward <listsben-ward.co.uk>:
>>
>>
> Hi,
>
> In a brand policy for it affermation on the community
is a good way
> use a single logo to diffuse it, also more logos may
create confusion.
> In this way people teach the new logo on hearts. For
more logo or
> products we can adopt more solution.
>
> For example the use of various formats logo like this -
most used -
> 8x15 pixel logo.
> http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/val
id-xhtml.png
> http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/valid
-css.png
> http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/wcag1
-AAA.png
>
> On the left we can insert the Mf logo and on the right,
with a pixel
> font, with hCalendar, hCards.... So, I can create it.
What formats do
> You want?


But how many of those will appear on a page? And where? And
for what  
formats would you use them? I can easily see a page on a
blog  
supporting: hatom, rel-tag, geo, adr, hreview, hcard,
hcalendar,  
xoxo, xfn, tagcloud.... though some people seem to love
icons on  
their pages, seems to me to be a bit on the extreme side.

I think the more important logo usage, for the time being,
is not to  
show that there is an event/hcalendar item somewhere in the
document  
(maybe, if the logo wasn't just put in the template) but as
a means  
of highlighting specific elements in a page as a way of
letting users  
know "this thing right here, there's something extra
going on"

Sure, something like this review - http://placenameher
e.com/article/ 
241/TufteAtTheManhattanCenter - could use more instruction
for the  
unchristened (it was just a stab) but it does its job of
highlighting  
the content even if a user doesn't understand what the logo
is -- and  
maybe that's a fine place to stop for some -- not every page
on the  
internet has to explain every mechanic of the internet.


In any case, I think a slightly OT to this thread, but more 

interesting case to be solved is how best to author client
side  
overlays so that they are as "safe" as possible on
the largest number  
of sites. There's been a few recent developments in this
area which I  
think are worth looking at if you haven't yet...

http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/journal/more-mic
roformats-highlighting
http://leftlogic.com/info/articles/microformats_bookm
arklet

-- 
[ Chris Casciano ]
[ chrisplacenamehere.com ] [ http://placenamehere.com
]

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Actually, it was the OPML logo that caused my friend to
critisize my
XOXO logo.  I'm not sure if it could be made a standard
'outline logo'
 or not... (I'm hating OPML very much this morning ;) ) 
Part of the
point is that I link reading lists (in both XOXO and OPML
formats)
from my blog, and it would be nice to have icons instead of
or to
complement the text (as we do for feeds).  I currently use
my XOXO
logo as a sticker to my validator for XOXO marked-up-blogs,
but that's
another thing altogether.

On 9/26/06, Chris Casciano <chrisplacenamehere.com>
wrote:
>
> On Sep 26, 2006, at 5:13 AM, Simone Onofri wrote:
>
> > 2006/9/26, Ben Ward <listsben-ward.co.uk>:
> >>
> >>
> > Hi,
> >
> > In a brand policy for it affermation on the
community is a good way
> > use a single logo to diffuse it, also more logos
may create confusion.
> > In this way people teach the new logo on hearts.
For more logo or
> > products we can adopt more solution.
> >
> > For example the use of various formats logo like
this - most used -
> > 8x15 pixel logo.
> > http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/val
id-xhtml.png
> > http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/valid
-css.png
> > http://www.societaconoscenza.rai.it/images/w3c/wcag1
-AAA.png
> >
> > On the left we can insert the Mf logo and on the
right, with a pixel
> > font, with hCalendar, hCards.... So, I can create
it. What formats do
> > You want?
>
>
> But how many of those will appear on a page? And where?
And for what
> formats would you use them? I can easily see a page on
a blog
> supporting: hatom, rel-tag, geo, adr, hreview, hcard,
hcalendar,
> xoxo, xfn, tagcloud.... though some people seem to love
icons on
> their pages, seems to me to be a bit on the extreme
side.
>
> I think the more important logo usage, for the time
being, is not to
> show that there is an event/hcalendar item somewhere in
the document
> (maybe, if the logo wasn't just put in the template)
but as a means
> of highlighting specific elements in a page as a way of
letting users
> know "this thing right here, there's something
extra going on"
>
> Sure, something like this review - http://placenameher
e.com/article/
> 241/TufteAtTheManhattanCenter - could use more
instruction for the
> unchristened (it was just a stab) but it does its job
of highlighting
> the content even if a user doesn't understand what the
logo is -- and
> maybe that's a fine place to stop for some -- not every
page on the
> internet has to explain every mechanic of the internet.
>
>
> In any case, I think a slightly OT to this thread, but
more
> interesting case to be solved is how best to author
client side
> overlays so that they are as "safe" as
possible on the largest number
> of sites. There's been a few recent developments in
this area which I
> think are worth looking at if you haven't yet...
>
> http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/journal/more-mic
roformats-highlighting
> http://leftlogic.com/info/articles/microformats_bookm
arklet
>
> --
> [ Chris Casciano ]
> [ chrisplacenamehere.com ] [ http://placenamehere.com
]
>
> _______________________________________________
> microformats-discuss mailing list
> microformats-discussmicroformats.org
> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>


-- 
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<http://www.awriterz.org&g
t;

MSN/GTalk/Jabber: singpolymagmail.com
ICQ/AIM: 103332966
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