Value subproperty - only applies to non-structured properties, right?

Costello, Roger L. wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Suppose that I want to markup this HTML text using the
hCard
> properties:
>
>          John will be our speaker.  Mr. Public will
talk about ...
>
> Notice that the name (John Public) is not consecutive,
it is scattered.
> Thus, this would not be the correct way to markup the
HTML text:
>
> <span class="fn">John will be our
speaker.  Mr. Public</span> will talk
> about ...
>
> Doing so would cause the "fn" property to
contain irrelevant stuff.
>
> Instead, we identify the relevant stuff using the
(microformat-defined)
> "value" subproperty:
>
> <span class="fn">
>         <span class="value">John
</span>
>         will be our speaker.  Mr. 
>         <span
class="value">Public</span>
> </span>
> will talk about ...
>
> The value of "fn" is the concatenation of the
"value" subproperties:
>
>     fn = concat('John ', 'Public') = John Public
>   
--- so far, so good.

> Now, suppose that I am using the "n"
property.  It is a structured
> property, and the above HTML text can be marked up
without using the
> "value" subproperty:
>
> <span class="n">
>         <span
class="given-name">John</span>
>         will be our speaker.  Mr. 
>         <span
class="family-name">Public</span>
> </span>
> will talk about ...
>
> Question: am I correct in saying that the
"value" subproperty is not
> needed when "n" is used to markup a name that
is scattered?
>   
--- i think it is still needed and useful for situations
such as:
<tr class="n">
    <td
class="family-name">Public,</td>
    <td class="given-name">John
Q.</td>
</tr>

you'll still want to extract only a portion of that data.

<tr class="n">
    <td class="family-name"><span
class="value">Public</span>,</td>
    <td class="given-name"><span
class="value">John</span> Q.</td>
</tr>

It is niche, but still very useful in certain circumstances.
> Let me refer to properties like "fn" as
'non-structured properties'
> (their value is just a string), and properties like
"n" as 'structured
> properties' (their value is subelements).
>
> Question: is it a general rule that the
"value" subproperty only
> applies to non-structured properties, such as fn,
label, etc.?  The
> "value" subproperty does not apply to
structured properties, such as n,
> adr, etc?
>   
it can apply to any property. This us what makes it very
useful.

The other issue with your example, is that FN is required.
So if we go
back to your original example, you can actually MIX the
value and
structured n in the same class attribute

<span class="n fn">
        <span class="given-name
value">John</span>
        will be our speaker.  Mr. 
        <span class="family-name
value">Public</span>
</span>

That will produce:
N:Public;John;;;;
FN:JohnPublic

(there is a small issue with concatenating the two values
together, but
you get the idea)

Another example of where the value comes in handy for
structured data is
the following:
<div class="adr">
<span class="locality"><abbr
title="Saint">St.</abbr>
Louis</span>
</div>

Now, without the class="value" you would get a
value of  "St. Louis" for
locality. Parsers will not do anything with  ABBR elements
that are
children of properties. But there is a way to actually
extract the value
'Saint Louis' and that would be to use the
class="value"

<div class="adr">
<span class="locality"><abbr
title="Saint"
class="value">St.</abbr><span
class="value"> Louis</span></span>
</div>
Now you would get 'Saint Louis' for the value of locality.

The class="value" is useful in any situation not
just non-structured
properties.

-brian

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