Benjamin West wrote:
> I don't know if it's true either. Tantek suggests I'm
being
> a bad scientist by allowing myself to look for
patterns.
Maybe that's why I'm a fish out of water here; discovering
patterns is one
of my strongest interests and one of my best skills.
BTW, I didn't see this email until now because you only
included my first
name in the body, not my full name. My email software
filters my emails
from uf-discuss with my full name and leaves in my inbox,
and the rest it
moves to a folder for later review.
> > Correct. The problem (as I've seen it) is the
vision and
> process for
> > microformats inhibits addressing those other
issues.
> Again, this is
> > just an observation, I am explicitly no longer
advocating
> they change it.
>
> I respectfully disagree. I'd like to start
investigating the
> use cases your business had trouble fulfilling,
starting
> with: are the problems you described with vendor
> communication common?
*Sigh* I've explained *one* of many different scenarious I
am interested
in. I've already been given dead-ends in many other areas.
That's not to say
I don't see benefit of Microformats in some contexts, but in
the majority of
contexts the Microformats process doesn't work for me. The
Tantek and Ryan
and others have told me as much. So why fight it?
> Mike, this is real good stuff. Can you continue
elaborating?
I can, for academic reasons, but this use case doesn't work
with the
microformats process. To address my former company's needs I
would have
needed to get a small group of vendors together, and they
would not be
interested in dealing with the uf-discuss list, only with a
list specific to
the use-case.
BTW, Joe Andrieu recently suggested people on the list read
Clay Shirky
talking about how "A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy"
[1]. I read it yesterday
and it was ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT! Thanks Joe! It identifies
clearly some of
the issues with the microformat process. OTOH, it calls for
ground rules,
and Tantek, Ryan, et. al. have set them. So I am now going
to quit fighting
those rules and when I participate in microformat I'll
accept the situation
as it is, not as I want it to be.
> 1.) How many ecommerce sites have their inventory
published
> on the web? - my guess is nearly all of them, although
I suspect
> there are some confounding factors.
99% would be my guess. You can't sell things unless they are
on your
website. And if you are a "call for more
information" kind of company, you
are not an ecommerce company. 
BTW, I wrote a long message [2] about how to handle products
generically
back in november. Absolutely zero people responded to me.
> 2.) How many sellers have trouble getting product
information
> from their vendors?
> - this one kind of surprises me, I thought everyone
had at
> least a php script hooked up to their database to
produce a CSV.
It's not that they have trouble, it's that someone has to
take the
initiative. And that isn't always the highest priority for
someone at a
vendor, or at the reseller. Far better to have machines do
it, but the
process on all sides needs to be as simple and low friction
as possible,
hence why microformats is a good fit. Remember, we are
talking many small
companies, not Microsoft. (But it's also needed by resellers
for dealing
with Microsoft).
Plus, what about the magazines that want to maintain a
"buyer's guide?" And
what about the "how to select" kind of websites
that want to help people
select products? What about the companies whose business
models don't
currently exist because we haven't thought of them? (But
again,
"Microformats" doesn't address that.... 
> 3.) How many esellers use vendors to populate a
> part of their online offerings?
100% Resellers with any size product line can't afford to
create all the
product information. Vendors know their products far better
in aggregate
than the resellers ever can. Note I'm not talking about VARs
who specialize
in a handful of products. They have different issues and
tracking product
info is not really one of theirs.
> 4.) Would hlisting <http://micr
oformats.org/wiki/hlisting>
> solve this particular use case?
Like a car would solve the needs of a dump truck. Sure you
could use it,
but it would take orders of magnitude more time and get the
car really,
really dirty. Said
another way. classified ads are optimized for the
listing, ecommerce product information need to be optimized
for the product
information. Take a look at [2] for a better idea.
--
-Mike Schinkel
http://www.mikesch
inkel.com/blogs/
http://www.welldesig
nedurls.org/
[1] http:
//www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
[2]
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail
/microformats-discuss/2006-November/0072
87.html
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