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Thread: Re:




Re:
user name
 2007-01-24 05:43:45 

  


  

    I'd like to bring up a real world example here.

Tantek wrote:
> I'd even advocate looking for
> the first 
 that is or contains an hCard on the page, since  
> that's
> following prescribed behavior from HTML4.

On every page of my site (http://adactio.com/), I have an hCard that  
uses the address element:



Adactio
is the online home of
 jeremyadactio.com" class="email fn">Jeremy Keith, a
web developer
living and working in

Brighton,
England
.



I believe this is the correct use of the address element. Whichever  
page of the site you find yourself on, the address element contains  
the contact details of the site owner: me.

On my contact page, I have a longer hCard:




Contact Details


Jeremy
Keith




Flat 7, 
57/58 Brunswick Road

Hove
BN3 1DH

England



Tel/Fax: +44 1273 771485


Mobile: +44 7792 069292




Here, I'm not using the address element (though I could) but this  
longer hCard should probably be considered the authoritative one (or  
it should be merged with any other hCard data collected).

I *could* use rel="me" on the first hCard (the one that appears on  
every page) to point to the contact page:



But that feels a little uncomfortable: usually, I would point  
rel="me" to the front page of my site (and that's exactly what I have  
done with hCards in other places like http://bulletproofajax.com/ )

So although I have a single location for an authoritative hCard, none  
of my "lesser" hCards are connected to the authoritative version.

David suggested:
> - if there is no fragment in the non-canonical hCard url, a   
> is required

To which, Tantek replied:
>  should never be required, and should be avoided.

And I tend to agree.

I have a feeling that the answer lies with rel="me".


In my case, if I were to update just the address element that appears  
on the home page with a link of rel="me" pointing to my contact page,  
then all roads would (eventually) lead to my authoritative hCard:

* Every page of adactio.com has an hCard with a "url" value pointing  
to the front page,
* All of my hCards on other sites (e.g. the Bulletproof Ajax site,  
blog comments etc.) points to the front page of adactio.com, again  
using the "url" value,
* The front page of my site points to my authoritative hCard using  
rel="me".

Brian described the behaviour of spidering tools and wrote:
> By doing this, we introduce NO new technology or mark-up to find
> authoritative data. We are using already existing microformats (XFN),
> the data is visible using rel instead of  it allows for the
> market to compete and build better spiders.

I agree. And I think I'll go and update the front page of my site  
right now. 

But Brian also raised another point:
> The problem arrises when multiple hCards are
> encountered on a page - which is the authorative hCard?

This is the case with http://adactio.com/contact/
As well as the "global" hCard (in the address element), the page also  
contains the authoritative one.

So what I may need to do is expand the href I use in a rel="me" link  
to point not just to my contact page, but specifically to a page  
fragment:



As long as I uniquely identify my authoritative hCard with that  
unique identifier (id="vcard") then, at least in theory, a spider  
should be able to tell which hCard is authoritative even if more than  
one hCard is on the page.

Note that I'm not suggesting a *specific* value like "vcard" for the  
fragment identifier, just that the fragment identifier corresponds to  
the rel="me" url. So I could just as easily use:



...as long as I then markup my authoritative hCard within id="foobar".

Anyway...

I started this email just to throw a real-world example out there,  
but talking through it has helped me clarify what I think I need to do.

Before I finally shut up, I wanted to make sure that this link gets  
mentioned at least once in this discussion:

http://gmpg.org/xfn/and/#idconsolidation

Bye,

Jeremy


-- 
Jeremy Keith

a d a c t i o

http://adactio.com/


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    Re: 
  


  

     user name

     2007-01-24 13:20:01
  


  

    
In message <643AED4B-29CA-4488-BB97-9D2AC97933D7adactio.com>, Jeremy
Keith <jeremyadactio.com> writes

>I have a feeling that the answer lies with
rel="me".

It has a certain elegance, but is rel="me"
appropriate for the hCards of
organisations?

It certainly wouldn't help on pages with more than one
"short" hCard,
link to a second page with the same people's full hCards, or
for third
party details where the author (the "me") isn't
the subject.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
                 <http://www
.pigsonthewing.org.uk/uFsig/>

                        Welcome to the 21-day week!
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    Re: 
  


  

     user name

     2007-01-24 20:13:37
  


  

    
Jeremy Keith wrote in relation to denoting an
"authoritative" hCard  
from another

> I have a feeling that the answer lies with
rel="me".

Might I suggest, reusing how permalinks work in hAtom and
hReview  
(particularly hReview)?

rel=bookmark is defined in the HTML 4 spec as
"Refers to a bookmark. A bookmark is a link to a key
entry point  
within an extended document" [1]

Nothing there suggests that the bookmark is in any way
authoritative,  
but an authoritative hCard would fall under "a key
entry point within  
an extended document". So, we are half way there.

Then, if we look at, hReview we find there is already a
similar  
solution. An hReview may point to its "permalink"
(surely the  
authoritative version? Ryan your thoughts on the analogy?)
using  
rel="bookmark self". The self part is required
along with bookmark to  
"indicate that the hyperlink is a permalink for the
review itself" [2]

So, suggestion is use

rel="bookmark self" to denote that the resource
pointed to by the  
link (<a href) is the authoriatative version of the hCard
(and indeed  
this might be a generalizable pattern? - the authoritative
version of  
a microformat may be indicated by the use of a link to that 

microformat, with a rel value which includes
"self" and "bookmark")

Thoughts?

Thanks

john

1.http
://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#type-links
2.ht
tp://microformats.org/wiki/hreview#Field_details

John Allsopp

--
style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/st
yle_master
about me :: http://johnfallsopp.com
Web Directions North, Vancouver Feb 6-10 :: http:// 
north.webdirections.org


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