Some (newbie) questions on microformats

Hi,

I'm coming across an increasing number of references to
microformats and
already do some work in the area of the Semantic Web so I'm
trying to
see the big picture of how it all fits together.

I've read a few introductory articles and faqs but still
have some
questions about how microformats fit together and work. When
I first
came across microformats I had the (mistaken) impression
that they were
a way for anyone to arbitrarily mark-up their data. After
some more
reading and a little contempltation I come to the (obvious)
understanding that that couldn't really work - I mean, what
good is a
formatting your data in a format that only you can
understand (I guess
it might make some sense for large organisations but apart
from that ...)?

So my current understanding of microformats is that they are
a new
approach to adding meaning to the web by (lightly) tagging
existing
content (in XHTML) to add a semantic dimension to documents.
The barrier
to entry is pretty low because in a little of cases you can
tag your
existing content by simply adding some class attributes to
your
document, right? This contrasts with the semantic web where
you need to
take your data in its existing formats and create RDF from
it.

In terms of standards - is
http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page#Specifications a
definitive list
of the microformats in use? If someone wants to introduce a
new one is
the approach described in -
http://microformat
s.org/wiki/faq#Q:_When_should_I_use_a_microformat.3F_What_ar
e_they_for.3F.22
the best way to approach things?

I have a problem in mind but I'm not clear on whether
microformats is
the answer or not - but I guess its what initially prompted
the search
that brought me to microformats and it fits the notion in
http://microform
ats.org/wiki/process of their having to be a
"problem"
to be solved. The problem in this case seems to me, to lend
itself to a
microformat. As a sysadmin for a small IT company, I
regularly have to
buy new equipment. Let's take laptops as a example.

Typically, I come up with a set of criteria for the laptop I
want e.g.
(the following are some example criteria, not to be taken
too seriously)

1. Must be a HP or an IBM
2. Must have a minimum of 512MB of RAM
3. Must have a Core Duo 2 processor.
4. Must have a minimum of 40GB of hard-drive
5. Must have a wifi card that supports 802.11a, 802.11b and
802.11g.
6. Must have a dedicated (not embedded graphics card).
7. Does it support Linux?

So I take this info and I surf to the various manufacturers
websites and
  try to narrow their list of models down to the list that
meets my
criteria (maybe ordered by price).

I guess in most cases this info is already on manufacturers
websites,
but its certainly not amenable to scraping and parsing
semantically (and
maybe its not in the interests of the manfacturers to
provide the
information in a format that lets me easily compare them to
other
manufacturers) but it strikes me that if they did .. it
would be really,
really easy for me to go to all the major manufacturers
websites, suck
them their microformatted data and then analyse it off line
- I see
something like an openoffice datapilot table (microsoft
excel pivot
table) where I can click various filters to match my
criteria above and
sort the output according to something like price and voila,
my choices
are obvious - is there a microformat that lends itself to
this sort of
thing already.

Is this the kind of scenario that microformats could meet or
am I way
off of the mark? I guess even if manufacturers didn't want
to
participate in this, there are lots of sites out there that
review
laptops - if you could get them to sign-up to this the
microformatted
information would become available quickly (all it would
take is one
person to review a laptop).

Thoughts and comments welcome ..

-stephen

-- 
stephenskynet.ie                             http://www.skynet.ie/~
stephen/

_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discussmicroformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss

On Jan 25, 2007, at 3:01 PM, stephen mulcahy wrote:

> I've read a few introductory articles and faqs but
still have some
> questions about how microformats fit together and work.
When I first
> came across microformats I had the (mistaken)
impression that they  
> were
> a way for anyone to arbitrarily mark-up their data.
After some more
> reading and a little contempltation I come to the
(obvious)
> understanding that that couldn't really work - I mean,
what good is a
> formatting your data in a format that only you can
understand (I guess
> it might make some sense for large organisations but
apart from  
> that ...)?

Homebrewed semantics aren't nearly as useful as
microformats, but  
they do have some value.  When I'm trying to make use of
data on  
another site, and I look at their source and see it has
description  
markup, that makes my job easier, and makes the web better. 
 
Microformats are just the logical next step.

> So my current understanding of microformats is that
they are a new
> approach to adding meaning to the web by (lightly)
tagging existing
> content (in XHTML) to add a semantic dimension to
documents. The  
> barrier
> to entry is pretty low because in a little of cases you
can tag your
> existing content by simply adding some class attributes
to your
> document, right?

Basically, yes.

> This contrasts with the semantic web where you need to
> take your data in its existing formats and create RDF
from it.

Right.

> In terms of standards - is
> http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page#Specifications a
definitive  
> list
> of the microformats in use?

Not exactly.  Many of the drafts are in use.  Many of the
exploratory  
discussions are even in use.  Those under
"specifications" are in use  
widely enough and/or long enough to be considered relatively
stable.   
But it's really more of a spectrum.

> If someone wants to introduce a new one is
> the approach described in -
> http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q:_When_sho
uld_I_use_a_microformat. 
> 3F_What_are_they_for.3F.22
> the best way to approach things?

That depends on what you mean by "introduce a new
one."  If you mean  
newly introduce an existing microformat to your markup, yes.
 If you  
mean to propose a new microformat, you should look at the
process.

> I guess in most cases this info is already on
manufacturers websites,
> but its certainly not amenable to scraping and parsing
semantically  
> (and
> maybe its not in the interests of the manfacturers to
provide the
> information in a format that lets me easily compare
them to other
> manufacturers) but it strikes me that if they did .. it
would be  
> really,
> really easy for me to go to all the major manufacturers
websites, suck
> them their microformatted data and then analyse it off
line - I see
> something like an openoffice datapilot table (microsoft
excel pivot
> table) where I can click various filters to match my
criteria above  
> and
> sort the output according to something like price and
voila, my  
> choices
> are obvious - is there a microformat that lends itself
to this sort of
> thing already.
>
> Is this the kind of scenario that microformats could
meet or am I way
> off of the mark?

See hProduct and hListing:

http://microform
ats.org/wiki/product
http://microfor
mats.org/wiki/hlisting

These have been in progress for a while, and if you're
interested in  
this area, I'd encourage you to review the process, look at
what's  
missing in the wiki, and try to move this forward to a
microformat  
that will suit your needs.

> I guess even if manufacturers didn't want to
> participate in this, there are lots of sites out there
that review
> laptops - if you could get them to sign-up to this the
microformatted
> information would become available quickly (all it
would take is one
> person to review a laptop).

Right, adoption is the hard part.  It helps to get
interested parties  
involved in the discussion early.

Peace,
Scott
_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discussmicroformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss