Re: rel-tag title as tag value

On 2/27/07, Scott Reynen <scottrandomchaos.com> wrote:
> I'd say if you're restricted to using a single tag
space, and you
> don't have enough control over that tag space to create
directories
> (a functionality available on any server), you have an
exceptional
> case not covered by rel-tag.  But there's no reason you
need to
> restrict your markup to what's covered by rel-tag.  If
there's some
> alternative format to the URLs in your mandatory tag
space, just
> adapt the tools you want to look for your format. 
Almost all of them
> are open source.

This all points back to the original problem which I still
haven't got
a good explanation for.

Microformats that require no custom changes to servers or
web page:
XFN
hCard
hCalendar
hAtom
hReview
Address
hResume
xFolk

Microformats that require specific settings on your web
server, and
access by the user to configure that web server if necessary
and a
very specific syntax that you might not be able to
accomplish with
your configuration:
rel-tag

Does anyone see the disconnect or just me?

Mike Kaply
_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discussmicroformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss

Mike Kaply wrote:

> Microformats that require specific settings on your web
server, and
> access by the user to configure that web server if
necessary and a
> very specific syntax that you might not be able to
accomplish with
> your configuration:
>
> rel-tag

Don't forget it's also the only one that goes against the  
microformats mantra: "simple conventions for embedding
semantic  
markup." It is neither markup, nor simple. Rather, it's
not simple in  
the majority of cases. Regarding simplicity:

1. Linking to others' tagspace. Simple? Yes. Practical?
Probably not.

2. Creating a physical directory for every tag I create.
Simple? Yes.  
Tedious? You bet. Fully localizable with a full UTF-8
character set?  
Only if you want to escape them all. That'd be pretty.

3. URL rewriting. Practical? Very. Recommended? Yes. Simple?
 
Certainly not. Low barrier to entry? I'd argue that anything
 
requiring RegEx does not entail a low barrier to entry...
therefore,  
not simple.

I believe we all agree that a restful tagspace is best. I
also think  
no one here suggests *requiring* a title if the tagspace is
there. We  
are only requesting an alternative that is both
"simple" and  
"markup." Something anyone can implement.

James

PS.  Have you seen the emperor's lovely new clothes? 

PPS. If that counts as "snarky", call me out on
it. It's meant in fun.

_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discussmicroformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss

On Feb 27, 2007, at 4:38 PM, Mike Kaply wrote:

> This all points back to the original problem which I
still haven't got
> a good explanation for.
>
> Microformats that require no custom changes to servers
or web page:
> XFN
> hCard
> hCalendar
> hAtom
> hReview
> Address
> hResume
> xFolk
>
> Microformats that require specific settings on your web
server, and
> access by the user to configure that web server if
necessary and a
> very specific syntax that you might not be able to
accomplish with
> your configuration:
> rel-tag
>
> Does anyone see the disconnect or just me?

All rel-* microformats (e.g. XFN, rel-license, vote-links,
even rel- 
nofollow) require something on the other end of the link. 
Most  
require just a document relevant to the microformat. 
rel-tag  
requires that document be (or appear to be) the index of a 

directory.  All web servers allow directory indexing by
default, so  
this does not require any special configuration.  It just
requires  
access to create files on the server, which is no different
from what  
any other rel-* microformat requires.

I think this requirement is more onerous with rel-tag
primarily  
because there are a lot more documents involved in rel-tag
than any  
of the other rel-* microformats, not really because it's a 

fundamentally different type of microformat.  And this is
apparently  
a widespread concern, but it will be easy to dismiss as an
edge case  
until someone has documented a convincingly large number of
real- 
world examples where rel-tag currently fails.  This is the
primary  
disconnect I see.  I think this wiki page is a good place to
start  
documenting tag space formats to see if the standard format
(last  
path segment) identified in rel-tag falls short of the 80%
mark:

http:/
/microformats.org/wiki/tag-space-formats

Peace,
Scott
_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discussmicroformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss