Re: hCard names - n vs. fn

For the purposes of discussion, a more generic version of
this is

<div class="vcard">
 <span class="n">
  <span class="honorific-prefix">The Rt
Hon</span>
  <span class="fn">Tony Blair</span>
  <span
class="honorific-suffix">MP</span>
 </span>
</div>

An update may be required, where then fn is looked for
first, and parsed out 
into appropriate n fields, then after that the n fields are
updated from the 
remaining information.

-- 
Paul Wilkins 

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On 4/23/07, Paul Wilkins <paul_wilkinsxtra.co.nz> wrote:
> For the purposes of discussion, a more generic version
of this is
>
> <div class="vcard">
>  <span class="n">
>   <span class="honorific-prefix">The Rt
Hon</span>
>   <span class="fn">Tony
Blair</span>
>   <span
class="honorific-suffix">MP</span>
>  </span>
> </div>
>
> An update may be required, where then fn is looked for
first, and parsed out
> into appropriate n fields, then after that the n fields
are updated from the
> remaining information.

--- well, this a tricky situation because the author has
been MORE
explicit with the use of the N property. We can happily pick
apart
things from FN when N is not present, but when the author
expresses
deeper semantics IMHO i don't think we should be implying
any
additional information, unless there is a very good reason.

In this situation there are two possibilities.
1) drop the N all together
 - you lose the extracting of the prefixes and suffixes, but
get the
FN->N correct
2) add an additional class of 'family-name' to the
class="fn"
 - this will incorrectly put the WHOLE FN value in the N's
family name field

as with everything, there are trade-offs. Microformats are
only ment
to cover the 80% not 100% of extreme edge cases.

-brian

-- 
brian suda
http://suda.co.uk
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In message
<21e770780704230518l7f8614d3k8daa6ae300b49108mail.gmail.com>, Brian
Suda <brian.sudagmail.com> writes

>On 4/23/07, Paul Wilkins <paul_wilkinsxtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> For the purposes of discussion, a more generic
version of this is
>>
>> <div class="vcard">
>>  <span class="n">
>>   <span
class="honorific-prefix">The Rt
Hon</span>
>>   <span class="fn">Tony
Blair</span>
>>   <span
class="honorific-suffix">MP</span>
>>  </span>
>> </div>
>>
>> An update may be required, where then fn is looked
for first, and parsed out
>> into appropriate n fields, then after that the n
fields are updated from the
>> remaining information.
>
>--- well, this a tricky situation because the author has
been MORE
>explicit with the use of the N property. We can happily
pick apart
>things from FN when N is not present, but when the
author expresses
>deeper semantics IMHO i don't think we should be
implying any
>additional information, unless there is a very good
reason.

Since you're answering a "copy" of my post, and
not the original, I'll
remind you that I went on to say:

Tails gives:

        Name: The Rt Hon Tony Blair MP
        Full Name: Tony Blair
        Given Name: %
        Family Name: %
        Additional Name: %
        Honorific Prefix: The Rt Hon
        Honorific Suffix: MP
        Nickname: %

Operator gives:

        fn=Tony Blair
        object n {
          object honorific-prefix {
                0=The Rt Hon
          }
          object honorific-suffix {
                0=MP
          }

and exports:

        BEGIN:VCARD

        N;CHARSET=UTF-8:;;;The Rt Hon;MP

        FN;CHARSET=UTF-8:Tony Blair

Which is right, and is the mark-up valid? It's not possible
to mark up
given- and family- names, as this is template generated, and
the
granularity cannot be guaranteed.

>In this situation there are two possibilities.
>1) drop the N all together
>- you lose the extracting of the prefixes and suffixes,
but get the
>FN->N correct
>2) add an additional class of 'family-name' to the
class="fn"
>- this will incorrectly put the WHOLE FN value in the
N's family name field

1) Seems harmful, as data is lost.

2) is, as you say incorrect; but also impossible in the case
concerned.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
            *  Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: 
<http://www.no2id.net/>
            *  Free Our Data:  <http://www.freeourd
ata.org.uk>
            *  Are you using Microformats, yet: <http://microformats.org/
> ?
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On Apr 23, 2007, at 2:16 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> Tails gives:
>
>         Name: The Rt Hon Tony Blair MP
>         Full Name: Tony Blair
>         Given Name: %
>         Family Name: %
>         Additional Name: %
>         Honorific Prefix: The Rt Hon
>         Honorific Suffix: MP
>         Nickname: %
>
> Operator gives:
>
>         fn=Tony Blair
>         object n {
>           object honorific-prefix {
>                 0=The Rt Hon
>           }
>           object honorific-suffix {
>                 0=MP
>           }
>
> and exports:
>
>         BEGIN:VCARD
>
>         N;CHARSET=UTF-8:;;;The Rt Hon;MP
>
>         FN;CHARSET=UTF-8:Tony Blair
>
> Which is right, and is the mark-up valid?

Operator is right, and the markup is valid.

Peace,
Scott

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