On 4/29/07 7:44 AM, "Brian Suda"
<brian.suda gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/29/07, Jeremy Keith <jeremyadactio.com> wrote:
>> If we were to find an existing HTML element that
was semantically
>> suited to encoding datetime and/or geo information
*and* didn't cause
>> problems with assistive technology, then I would
jump all over it and
>> agree wholeheartedly that the title-design-pattern
should be
>> restricted to that particular element. But I don't
believe such an
>> element exists.
>
> the whole discussion begs the question about what
people with
> assistive technologies ACTUALLY think? A while ago
there was a whole
> report about who screen readers fail with AJAX apps,
then someone
> actually ASKED some blind folks if they could navigate
the site...
> they managed to do so just fine.
Agreed. This is definitely one of the reasons why we
emphasize real world
examples and data.
> We are naively ASSUMING that people with assistive
technologies NEED
> our help. I would prefer, before WE think we can hand
the right
> soltion down from on high, that someone who uses a
screen-reader as
> their main browser give their feedback.
>From talking with them at SXSW I do know that at least
Derek Featherstone
and James Craig have done some real world research on what
ABBR does, but
what we need to do now is to document their results in
detail on the wiki in
order to be sure that we are addressing the specific
problems found, rather
than potentially theoretical expansions/generalizations to
problems.
James, could you start with documenting the specific
assistive technologies
that you are testing (with version numbers, estimated # of
users etc.)
htt
p://microformats.org/wiki/assistive-technology
The next step would be to create a wiki page that documents
tests that have
been done with results, using specific assistive
technologies, and URLs to
specific content in the wild that uses microformats with
abbr today.
Perhaps something like:
http://microformats.org/wiki/abbr-assistive-technolo
gy-tests
> We skirt the issue by moving data to the title
attribute of
> alternative elements, how do we know screen-readers now
or later won´t
> read out those as well?
We don't. And frankly, at this point, rather than take
another "best guess"
as I did with the abbr for datetime, and later extended to
other data types
(numbers, enumerated type values), any proposal should be
tested as well in
those same specific assistive technologies with test cases.
> we are coding around a problem by potentiall
> creating other ones and ignoring the semantics of the
HTML spec in the
> process.
Agreed. Adopting a proposal like the one that has been put
forth without
sufficient research and documentation may not actually make
the situation
any better in practice (while being semantically weaker).
Tantek
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