The fact that I think POSH is a ridiculous, unnecessary, and
patronising
initiative aside, these sentiments are spot-on.
Semantic HTML comes first, microformats after. For POSH to
catch on, it
needs to appeal to web development (or certainly web
standards)
newcomers. Microformats is an advanced concept - not one
that most
beginners are going to latch on to straight away.
So I think lumping this with microformats partly defeats the
point - it
has the potential to confuse and seemingly complicate
things, rather
than clarify and simplify them.
Patrick
Chris Messina wrote:
> I agree with Ben on this, and much of the other
sentiment raised so
> far. To simplify this discussion, I think POSH is
useful as a
> conceptual tool for reifying the definition of
microformats:
>
> POSH Patterns: semantic practices resulting in
meaningful markup
> Microformats: HTML-based data formats
>
> I believe that POSH should actually become it's own
parallel effort to
> microformats -- and that the microformats wiki should
link to external
> resources, documentation and best practices for all
things POSH. Now,
> that doesn't have to happen right away, as we are still
building out
> the foundational corpus of information related to POSH,
but I think
> conflating microformats and POSH could end up confusing
folks new to
> either concept -- and as such needs a logical and
geographic
> delineation if we're to squeeze the most value out of
this.
>
> To that end, I think that whatever POSH-mark we come up
with shouldn't
> relate to the microformats mark, either in color or
typeface. While
> the terms are siblings, the way we market them should
be radically
> different -- as should be the audiences of either
term.
>
> The audience of POSH is generally anyone who writes
HTML, who works
> with people who write HTML, CSS and AJAX developers,
bloggers,
> designers, hybrids, framework builders, language
writers and so forth.
>
> The microformats audience is similar, but should also
include
> standards folks, browser developers, and so on. Nor are
the members of
> these audiences mutually exclusive, but we must
maintain
> audience-specific priorities for each effort.
>
> Finally, as to the POSH brand, I think there's still
much to be done
> to come up with a mark to represent the effort that is
as cool or sexy
> as the microformats icon itself. Dan Cederholm set the
bar pretty high
> on this one and I've already got a few designer-friends
coming up with
> something that I think you'll like, playing on the idea
of "semantic
> salt"...
>
> So, it's something of a matter of time before we find a
proper home
> for POSH, but agree that long-term, the goal should be
to separate out
> the two efforts as distinct community efforts.
>
> Chris
>
> On 5/5/07, David Mead <davidjohnmead gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have to agree, and have cast my vote, that the
use of the
>> microformats logo with POSH isn't a good idea
straight out of the
>> gate.
>>
>> I do like Jon's badges so if I were to ever use one
I'd be happy with
>> one of those.
>>
>> Maybe I'm missing something but if you want to
promote "plain old
>> semantic HTML" then wouldn't you have that
first and then add
>> microformats to it? So the POSH badge should be
designed first and
>> then an alternative to show you are using POSH with
uF's. Didn't the
>> W3C have badges (I'm going back a bit now) for
HTML, one for CSS and
>> one combined?
>>
>> Maybe this is the way to go. Get the foundation
(POSH), add CSS,
>> uF's, RSS what-have-you afterwards.
>>
>> I'm not a big one for badges anyway 
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On 5/5/07, Jon Tan <microformatsgr0w.com> wrote:
>> > Ben Ward wrote:
>> > > Now the whole point of this is to
differentiate semantic HTML from
>> > > microformats, discourage the further
ambiguation of the terms. So to
>> > > be honest I'm a bit put out by the badges
that have been added to
>> > > http://microformats.org/wiki/posh#POSH_Bling_for_your_
Blog which
>> > > include the microformats logo.
>> >
>> > I've provided a plain HTML / CSS alternative
without the
>> microformats logo:
>> >
>> > http://jontangerine.com/silo/microformats/posh-badge/
>> >
>> > Please feel free to use / adapt as you like.
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> > Jon Tan
>> >
>> >
>> >
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ts-discuss
>> >
>>
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>
>
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