hResume - notes on creation and some feedback wanted

Hi all,

I've just published an hResume here:
http://ciaranmcnulty.com/
cv

I'd appreciate any comments about the markup.  Operator
seems happy
with it but I've not tried with any other consumers.

Are there any active hResume aggregators I could submit it
to?

Some notes on my experiences of marking it up:

1. Overall, with an existing knowledge of hCard and
hCalendar, marking
up a CV as hResume is very straightforward.

2. Thinking of places to link to to add rel-tag links is
problematic -
at the moment I suspect people will err on the side of not
using
rel-tag

3. A very common element in CVs is a list of skills and
years
experience with that skill.  Current skill markup is rel-tag
which
doesn't encapsulate this, so it may be an area to look at.

4. I've seen this discussed before without resolution -
there doesn't
seem to be a way of marking up 'the present' as a finish
date for an
experience vevent.

-Ciaran McNulty
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> 4. I've seen this discussed before without resolution -
there doesn't
> seem to be a way of marking up 'the present' as a
finish date for an
> experience vevent.

Just leave out the dtend and you should be all set.


Ted

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On 8/29/07, Edward O'Connor <hober0gmail.com> wrote:
> > 4. I've seen this discussed before without
resolution - there doesn't
> > seem to be a way of marking up 'the present' as a
finish date for an
> > experience vevent.
>
> Just leave out the dtend and you should be all set.

Unfortunately vCard has a mechanism for generating default
dtends when
they are missing [1] - this is one of the issues on the
hresume-issues
page [2] that I'd really like to see resolved.

Possible solutions would be:

1. Stating in the hResume spec that an absent dtend in an
hresume
event doesn't use this mechanism
2. Having some 'special' value that can be used for
'present'

Both would have negative impacts on hCal parsers that were
trying to
consume the page and weren't 'hResume-aware'.

-Ciaran McNulty
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On 8/29/07, Ciaran McNulty <mailciaranmcnulty.com>
wrote:
> Unfortunately vCard has a mechanism for generating
default dtends when
> they are missing [1] - this is one of the issues on the
hresume-issues
> page [2] that I'd really like to see resolved.

Apologies:

[1] http://microformats.org/discus
s/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-October/006477.html
[2] http://mi
croformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues
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On 8/29/07, Ciaran McNulty <mailciaranmcnulty.com>
wrote:

> 2. Thinking of places to link to to add rel-tag links
is problematic -
> at the moment I suspect people will err on the side of
not using
> rel-tag

-- this has also been noted when some resume services let
you add more
free-text than simple 1-2 word terms. Can you document your
experiences here:

http://mi
croformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues
ht
tp://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-brainstorming

> 3. A very common element in CVs is a list of skills and
years
> experience with that skill.

--- if this is common can you please add examples to the
wiki? Maybe
it was missed or omitted for some reason:

http://microformats.org/wiki/resume-brainstor
ming#Examples_Analysis

> Current skill markup is rel-tag which
> doesn't encapsulate this, so it may be an area to look
at.

--- there has been a discussion of skill areas, but not
really the
number or grading of a skill. This can be problematics,
people who
have been driving for 70+ years have more experience, but
are not
always better. Same would go for a 4 of 5 rating. These
ratings (by
years or rating) are abritary to the individual. I know some
listings
say "3-5 years experience" i am assuming that is
the use-case for
dating skills?

You could experiment with tagging and adding skills to an
experience
event. vevents can take "categoies" which can be
rel-tags. So if i had
a skill in 2001, then you could deduce date()-2001= years
with skill.
You can always use POSH markup at the moment too.

> 4. I've seen this discussed before without resolution -
there doesn't
> seem to be a way of marking up 'the present' as a
finish date for an
> experience vevent.

as Ted said "Just leave out the dtend and you should be
all set."

i didnīt see this on the FAQ page, so please add this with
an answer.
http://micro
formats.org/wiki/hresume-faq

Then others can iterate on it as needed.

thanks,
-brian

-- 
brian suda
http://suda.co.uk

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On 8/29/07, Brian Suda <brian.sudagmail.com> wrote:
> > 2. Thinking of places to link to to add rel-tag
links is problematic -
> > at the moment I suspect people will err on the
side of not using
> > rel-tag
>
> -- this has also been noted when some resume services
let you add more
> free-text than simple 1-2 word terms. Can you document
your
> experiences here:
>
> http://mi
croformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues
> ht
tp://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-brainstorming

I will do - in some ways it's more to do with the fact I
*have* to
link to an external site just to indicate what 'PHP' is,
which seems
like a heavy load to place on the user.

> > 3. A very common element in CVs is a list of
skills and years
> > experience with that skill.
>
> --- if this is common can you please add examples to
the wiki? Maybe
> it was missed or omitted for some reason:

I can only really put my own CV on there, my only evidence
is
anecdotal based on looking at a lot of (UK) developer's CVs
lately.

> You could experiment with tagging and adding skills to
an experience
> event. vevents can take "categoies" which can
be rel-tags. So if i had
> a skill in 2001, then you could deduce date()-2001=
years with skill.

That's a very good idea, thanks

> > 4. I've seen this discussed before without
resolution - there doesn't
> > seem to be a way of marking up 'the present' as a
finish date for an
> > experience vevent.
>
> as Ted said "Just leave out the dtend and you
should be all set."
>
> i didnīt see this on the FAQ page, so please add this
with an answer.
> http://micro
formats.org/wiki/hresume-faq

I think your message has crossed with my reply to Ted  -
this isn't on
the faq page because it's an existing issue on the
hresume-issues
page.

I've no objection to leaving off dtend as a solution but I
think it
would need to be added to the hResume spec as a departure
from iCal.

-Ciaran McNulty

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On 8/29/07, Ciaran McNulty <mailciaranmcnulty.com>
wrote:
> I think your message has crossed with my reply to Ted 
- this isn't on
> the faq page because it's an existing issue on the
hresume-issues
> page.
>
> I've no objection to leaving off dtend as a solution
but I think it
> would need to be added to the hResume spec as a
departure from iCal.

--- yes, we did just miss messages. According to the RFC an
event
without a DTEND is to be treated as a 1 day event.

I also looked into DURATION as a possible solution, but that
is no
different than constantly updating a DTEND. It would somehow
still be
tied to a specific instance of the page. so i could uses
now() and
have a server-side script generate the current date, but as
things got
exported it would be frozen into the exported file as that
date.

If an imaginary value of "present" were invented,
then parsers would
probably do the same thing can take the current date() and
save that
out to the file, otherwise DTEND:present wouldn't be a valid
.ics
file.

this will take some thought. At the moment i think the
easiest
solution is to either leave off DTEND or add it in
programiatically
with the now()

feel free to document the options on the hreusme-issues page
in more
detail and any possible solutions (if any)

-brian

-- 
brian suda
http://suda.co.uk
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On Aug 29, 2007, at 10:26 AM, Brian Suda wrote:

> If an imaginary value of "present" were
invented, then parsers would
> probably do the same thing can take the current date()
and save that
> out to the file, otherwise DTEND:present wouldn't be a
valid .ics
> file.
>
> this will take some thought. At the moment i think the
easiest
> solution is to either leave off DTEND or add it in
programiatically
> with the now()

iCalendar supports repeated events with no end.  I wonder if
we could  
use that to suggest ongoing events.  For example, instead of
saying I  
started my current employment on 2007-05-31 with no end, I
could say  
I started at 2007-05-31 09:00:00, ended at 2007-05-31
17:00:00, and  
repeat that every weekday with no end to the repetition. 
That's  
probably more information than anyone's actually publishing,
but if  
that's workable in iCalendar, we could maybe come up with a
shorthand  
for it in hCalendar.

Peace,
Scott
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