A further possible solution to the "abbr" accessibility issue

Early in December, I made the following suggestion, but in a
separate,
and unclearly-titled thread.

I'm reposting it here, in a new thread, in the hope that it
will warrant
discussion:

#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#

While I understand the desire to avoid namespacing per se,
using:

        <span class="duration"
title="value:PT2M23S">2:23</span>

or
        <span class="dtstart"
             
title="value:20070912T16:03:00+01:00">
              4.03pm
        </span>

would render the title both more semantically accurate and
human-readable. It would also enable the users of assistive
technologies
to hit the "next" button as soon as they hear
"value colon" read out,
bypassing the machine-readable fragment.

Parsers "MUST" ignore titles not starting with
"value:", thereby
ensuring compatibility with titles used on spans, for other
purposes.

In the above "value:" is just as suggestion; the
label could be
"machine-value:", "data-equivalent:", or
some other such word or phrase.

This suggestion may case problems for non-English speakers,
though.

Perhaps "data:" would be more internationally
recognised?

#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#

Having had time to reflect, the latter would now be my
preference.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
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This probably was raised before, but I didn't find it. Why
we can't  
put these values into class? It seems to me semantically
correct:  
additional meaning. It is as easy to parse as title and it
removes  
accessibility issue completely.
As soon as we are going to use prefix let's gain more
benefits from  
this and hide our machine readable data deeper.

Best,
Dmitry Baranovskiy
http://dmitry.baranovs
kiy.com/

Optimus: http://microforma
tique.com/optimus/

On 01/01/2008, at 1:00 AM, Andy Mabbett <andypigsonthewing.org.uk>  
wrote:
>
> #~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#~#
>
> While I understand the desire to avoid namespacing per
se, using:
>
>        <span class="duration"
title="value:PT2M23S">2:23</span>
>
> or
>        <span class="dtstart"
>             
title="value:20070912T16:03:00+01:00">
>              4.03pm
>        </span>
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On Jan 2, 2008 10:51 AM, Dmitry Baranovskiy
<dmitry.baranovskiygmail.com> wrote:
> This probably was raised before, but I didn't find it.
Why we can't
> put these values into class? It seems to me
semantically correct:
> additional meaning. It is as easy to parse as title and
it removes
> accessibility issue completely.

Because class should be used for distinguishing between
types of elements.

When XHTML uses
    <p class="byline">by Paul
Wilkins</p>
the intention is to allow a further XML refinement to
become
    <byline>by Paul Wilkins</byline>

There are other ways to hide information from people while
still
allowing it to be accessible by machines.
For example:
<!-- uf:duration PT2M23S -->
-- 
Paul Wilkins
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In message 
<18050cf90801012040g4fb606b1va37d799caa06d567mail.gmail.com>, Paul 
Wilkins <pmw57xtra.co.nz> writes

>There are other ways to hide information from people
while still
>allowing it to be accessible by machines.
>For example:
><!-- uf:duration PT2M23S -->

There is no guarantee that comments will be delivered to the
end user - 
many compression algorithms (for mobile devices, for
example) strip them 
out.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
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In message <fcYteaz$XPeHFwEapigsonthewing.org.uk>,
Andy Mabbett
<andypigsonthewing.org.uk> writes

>Early in December, I made the following suggestion, but
in a separate,
>and unclearly-titled thread.
>
>I'm reposting it here, in a new thread, in the hope that
it will
>warrant discussion:

[prefix changed to "data"]

>       <span class="dtstart"
>            
title="data:20070912T16:03:00+01:00">
>             4.03pm
>       </span>

A further advantage of this method has just occurred to me;
it could use
plain-language *and* machine values in one title, thus:

        <span class="dtstart"
                title="we start at three minutes
                past four - data:
2007-09-12T16:03:00+01:00">
                4.03pm
        </span>

and we could even exempt parentheses:

        <span class="dtstart"
                title="we start at three minutes
                past 4 (data:
2007-09-12T16:03:00+01:00)">
                4.03pm
        </span>

-- 
Andy Mabbett
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On 2/8/08, Andy Mabbett <andypigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:
> In message <fcYteaz$XPeHFwEapigsonthewing.org.uk>,
Andy Mabbett
> <andypigsonthewing.org.uk> writes
>
> >Early in December, I made the following suggestion,
but in a separate,
> >and unclearly-titled thread.
> >
> >I'm reposting it here, in a new thread, in the hope
that it will
> >warrant discussion:
>
> [prefix changed to "data"]
>
> >       <span class="dtstart"
> >            
title="data:20070912T16:03:00+01:00">
> >             4.03pm
> >       </span>
>
> A further advantage of this method has just occurred to
me; it could use
> plain-language *and* machine values in one title,
thus:
>
>         <span class="dtstart"
>                 title="we start at three minutes
>                 past four - data:
2007-09-12T16:03:00+01:00">
>                 4.03pm
>         </span>
>
> and we could even exempt parentheses:
>
>         <span class="dtstart"
>                 title="we start at three minutes
>                 past 4 (data:
2007-09-12T16:03:00+01:00)">
>                 4.03pm
>         </span>
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett


I wonder if this will be heavy for the parsers when both
"plain-language *and* machine values" are mixed
i.e., knowing the
scope of the regex to differentiate between the two.

-Sarven
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In message
<d4154bcf0802091115we168d5eqfd319db0ffb273c9mail.gmail.com>, 
Sarven Capadisli <csarvengmail.com> writes

>> A further advantage of this method has just
occurred to me; it could use
>> plain-language *and* machine values in one title,
thus:
>>
>>         <span class="dtstart"
>>                 title="we start at three
minutes
>>                 past four - data:
2007-09-12T16:03:00+01:00">
>>                 4.03pm
>>         </span>
>>
>> and we could even exempt parentheses:
>>
>>         <span class="dtstart"
>>                 title="we start at three
minutes
>>                 past 4 (data:
2007-09-12T16:03:00+01:00)">
>>                 4.03pm
>>         </span>

>I wonder if this will be heavy for the parsers when both

>"plain-language *and* machine values" are
mixed i.e., knowing the scope 
>of the regex to differentiate between the two.

'Everything after "data:" excluding leading white
space and a trailing 
close-parenthesis, if any' shouldn't be to difficult to
code.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
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