hAtom question

Morning

The schema section of the hAtom spec [1] says:

"author. required using hCard. [*]"

But the entry author section [2] says:

"an Entry SHOULD have at least one Entry Author
element"

Should this be a MUST?

Also in a blog post [3] David Janes suggests that hAtom 0.2
may drop the
author and updated/created requirements. Any idea if/when
this will happen?

I'd like to add hAtom to all our episode aggregations [4]
on
bbc.co.uk/programmes and authorship and dating are tricky

Sorry if I'm being a numpty - just a bit confused

michael








[1] http://micr
oformats.org/wiki/hatom#Schema

[2] http:
//microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Author

[3] http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com/:entry:blogm
atrix-2008-03-05-0000/

[4] http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/formats/documentaries


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There's two different levels of abstraction in the hAtom
spec:
- the logical model, which maps on to the Atom spec
- the physical model, which is the class names etc.

Not everything in the logical model has to be present in the
physical
model (i.e. your hAtom markup). Why? Because we have
defaulting rules
to decide what they are!

On to your questions:

- I'll be doing the hAtom 0.2 stuff Real Soon Now 
- you can safely assume that the requirement for having the
Author
element is going to disappear; hAtom 0.2 will have a rule
for deciding
what the default is, though what that rule is is a mystery

The updated date is a little more problematic. My first
inclination
would be to say find a way to squeeze it in there. My
second
inclination ... and this is entirely my opinion and probably
rubs a
lot of people the wrong way ... is just to do it without the
updated
element and see if the spec catches up with the usage.

Regards, etc...


On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Michael Smethurst
<Michael.Smethurstbbc.co.uk> wrote:
> Morning
>
> The schema section of the hAtom spec [1] says:
>
> "author. required using hCard. [*]"
>
> But the entry author section [2] says:
>
> "an Entry SHOULD have at least one Entry Author
element"
>
> Should this be a MUST?
>
> Also in a blog post [3] David Janes suggests that hAtom
0.2 may drop the
> author and updated/created requirements. Any idea
if/when this will happen?
>
> I'd like to add hAtom to all our episode aggregations
[4] on
> bbc.co.uk/programmes and authorship and dating are
tricky
>
> Sorry if I'm being a numpty - just a bit confused
>
> michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] http://micr
oformats.org/wiki/hatom#Schema
>
> [2] http:
//microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Author
>
> [3] http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com/:entry:blogm
atrix-2008-03-05-0000/
>
> [4] http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/formats/documentaries
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and
may contain personal views which are not the views of the
BBC unless specifically stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from
your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way
nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender
immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or
received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to
this.
>
> _______________________________________________
> microformats-discuss mailing list
> microformats-discussmicroformats.org
> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>



-- 
David Janes
Founder, BlogMatrix
http://www.blogmatrix.com
http://www.onaswarm.com
http://www.onamine.com
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Michael Smethurst wrote:

> I'd like to add hAtom to all our episode aggregations
[4] on
> bbc.co.uk/programmes and authorship and dating are
tricky

Regarding authorship, if you include:

<address class="author vcard"><span
class="fn
org">BBC</span></address>

Anywhere on the page (yes -- one little mention in the
footer ought to be 
enough), then that should do the trick. From the hAtom 0.1
spec:

	| Entry Author
	| [...]
	| if the Entry Author is missing
	|   * find the Nearest In Parent <address> element(s)
with 
	|     class name author and that is/are a valid hCard

Would that solve your problem?

-- 
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 40 days,
21:39.]

                              The Semantic Web
                http://t
obyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/09/sw/

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Excellent point, though the discussion [1] is to get rid of
that
algorithm since no one understands it, including me.
However, as long
as the hCard is within the hfeed (which could be the whole
page) and
marked "author" you'll be OK!

Regards, etc...

[1] discussion, not decision -- this will all be up for
grabs soon if
you have an opinion!

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Toby A Inkster
<mailtobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:
> Michael Smethurst wrote:
>
>  > I'd like to add hAtom to all our episode
aggregations [4] on
>  > bbc.co.uk/programmes and authorship and dating
are tricky
>
>  Regarding authorship, if you include:
>
>  <address class="author vcard"><span
class="fn
org">BBC</span></address>
>
>  Anywhere on the page (yes -- one little mention in the
footer ought to be
>  enough), then that should do the trick. From the hAtom
0.1 spec:
>
>         | Entry Author
>         | [...]
>         | if the Entry Author is missing
>         |   * find the Nearest In Parent
<address> element(s) with
>         |     class name author and that is/are a valid
hCard
>
>  Would that solve your problem?
>
>  --
>  Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
>  [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
>  [OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 40 days,
21:39.]
>
>                               The Semantic Web
>                 http://t
obyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/09/sw/
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  microformats-discuss mailing list
>  microformats-discussmicroformats.org
>  http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>



-- 
David Janes
Founder, BlogMatrix
http://www.blogmatrix.com
http://www.onaswarm.com
http://www.onamine.com
_______________________________________________
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ts-discuss

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM, David Janes
<davidjanesblogmatrix.com> wrote:
> this will all be up for grabs soon if
>  you have an opinion!

I think the part of the hAtom spec that says:

"If the Entry Author is missing

    * find the Nearest In Parent <address> element(s)
with class name
author and that is/are a valid hCard
    * otherwise the entry is invalid hAtom "

Should be amended to:

"If the Entry Author is missing

    * find the Nearest In Parent <address> element(s)
with class name
author and that is/are a valid hCard
    * if there is no suitable <address> find the
Nearest In Parent
element(s) with class name author and that is/are a valid
hCard
    * if there is/are no element(s) with class name author
find the
Nearest In Parent element(s) that is/are a valid hCard
    * otherwise the entry is invalid hAtom "

In the interest of making it as easy as possible to specify
an author.
 I think the <address class="author vcard">
will still need to be
matched 'first' to allow for the existing published content
that has
managed to comply with the parsing rules as they stand.

It's also worth noting that the high occurance of invalid
feeds has
meant that nearly all feed readers can cope with a missing
AUTHOR
element in an Atom feed.

-Ciaran McNulty
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On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Toby A Inkster <mailtobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:
>  Regarding authorship, if you include:
>
>  <address class="author vcard"><span
class="fn
org">BBC</span></address>
>
>  Anywhere on the page (yes -- one little mention in the
footer ought to be
>  enough), then that should do the trick.

The requirement for <address> has been under a lot of
scrutiny,
because of its inability to contain block elements.

hReview has more lenient defaulting rules, and I think there
was some
mention in another thread of hAtom 0.2 fixing this.

-Ciaran McNulty
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