XFN is getting smoked by FOAF

Hi Folks,

I have been doing some digging into social networks that use
XFN vice
FOAF.

Thus far, the only social network that I have found which
uses XFN is
metafilter.com For an example, see:
http://www
.metafilter.com/usercontacts/292  Thanks Scott Reynen
for
pointing me to it. 

Supposedly WordPress.com uses XFN but I have not been able
to
demonstrate this (I have an account on WordPress and have
tried
repeatedly to demonstrate the use of XFN but to no avail).

Conversely, I discovered that FOAF is used by many social
networks.
Here is a list of 28 social networks that use FOAF:
http://esw.w3.org/t
opic/FoafSites

Here's an example of the use of FOAF on livejournal.com
http://danbri
.livejournal.com/data/foaf (View >> Page Source to
see the
actual FOAF document)

Another thing that I have discovered is that the
relationship
information provided by FOAF is just "knows", e.g.
Alice knows Bob.
XFN, on the other hand, has a rich set of relationship
information,
e.g. Alice is a friend, co-worker, neighbor, and kin of
Bob.
Furthermore, XFN is a much lighter-weight approach (just add
the
relationship onto a link) than FOAF (create a complex RDF
document).
So it would seem that XFN provides a richer and
lighter-weight set of
information and would be a better choice for social
networks.

WHY IS THERE SUCH LITTLE USE OF XFN BY SOCIAL NETWORKS?

/Roger

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Weird -- I was just doing the same research and came up with
somewhat
different conclusion! Sorry for the formatting here -- just
cut and
paste from a spreadsheet. I'll have a look at your list
though to
include in my master 

Site	Format
Buzznet	FOAF
Del.icio.us	N/A
Digg	Custom, hCard
Facebook	API
Flickr	XFN
Jaiku	XFN
Last.fm	XFN
LiveJournal	None
Ma.gnol.ia	XFN, hCard
MSN Spaces	a mess
MySpace	API
Picassa	no
Pownce	XFN
Soup.io	no
StumbleUpon	Custom
Twitter	API
Typepad	FOAF
Tumblr	No export
Upcoming	Custom
Wordpress	No
Vimeo	Custom
YouTube	Custom
Vox	XFN

Regards, etc...

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Costello, Roger L.
<costellomitre.org> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
>  I have been doing some digging into social networks
that use XFN vice
>  FOAF.
>
>  Thus far, the only social network that I have found
which uses XFN is
>  metafilter.com For an example, see:
>  http://www
.metafilter.com/usercontacts/292  Thanks Scott Reynen
for
>  pointing me to it.
>
>  Supposedly WordPress.com uses XFN but I have not been
able to
>  demonstrate this (I have an account on WordPress and
have tried
>  repeatedly to demonstrate the use of XFN but to no
avail).
>
>  Conversely, I discovered that FOAF is used by many
social networks.
>  Here is a list of 28 social networks that use FOAF:
>  http://esw.w3.org/t
opic/FoafSites
>
>  Here's an example of the use of FOAF on
livejournal.com
>  http://danbri
.livejournal.com/data/foaf (View >> Page Source to
see the
>  actual FOAF document)
>
>  Another thing that I have discovered is that the
relationship
>  information provided by FOAF is just
"knows", e.g. Alice knows Bob.
>  XFN, on the other hand, has a rich set of relationship
information,
>  e.g. Alice is a friend, co-worker, neighbor, and kin
of Bob.
>  Furthermore, XFN is a much lighter-weight approach
(just add the
>  relationship onto a link) than FOAF (create a complex
RDF document).
>  So it would seem that XFN provides a richer and
lighter-weight set of
>  information and would be a better choice for social
networks.
>
>  WHY IS THERE SUCH LITTLE USE OF XFN BY SOCIAL
NETWORKS?
>
>  /Roger
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  microformats-discuss mailing list
>  microformats-discussmicroformats.org
>  http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>



-- 
David Janes
Founder, BlogMatrix
http://www.blogmatrix.com
http://www.onaswarm.com
http://www.onamine.com
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On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 1:59 PM, David Janes
<davidjanesblogmatrix.com> wrote:
>  Last.fm XFN

last.fm data is available as FOAF also thanks to a
translator created
by Yves Raimond.

>  LiveJournal     None

LiveJournal supports FOAF.

>  Pownce  XFN

Pownce supports FOAF too.

>  Twitter API

Twitter uses hCard/XFN and I provide a FOAF translator for
data
available via their API.

-- 
Tom Morris
http://tommorris.org/
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Hi Tom,

Thanks. I don't see Twitter friend information being
publicly
available though; you need to be logged in, do you not? I
was
compiling this table for my own benefit; once you get to
logging it
gets worth taking about the API rather than microformats
because you
don't have to worry about paging through results, such as
here [1]

Regards, etc...

[1] http://twitter
.com/scobleizer/friends/

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Tom Morris
<bbtommorrisgmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 1:59 PM, David Janes
<davidjanesblogmatrix.com> wrote:
>  >  Last.fm XFN
>
>  last.fm data is available as FOAF also thanks to a
translator created
>  by Yves Raimond.
>
>  >  LiveJournal     None
>
>  LiveJournal supports FOAF.
>
>  >  Pownce  XFN
>
>  Pownce supports FOAF too.
>
>  >  Twitter API
>
>  Twitter uses hCard/XFN and I provide a FOAF translator
for data
>  available via their API.
>
>  --
>  Tom Morris
>  http://tommorris.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  microformats-discuss mailing list
>  microformats-discussmicroformats.org
>  http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>



-- 
David Janes
Founder, BlogMatrix
http://www.blogmatrix.com
http://www.onaswarm.com
http://www.onamine.com
_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
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http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss

Costello, Roger L. wrote:

> So it would seem that XFN provides a richer and
lighter-weight set of
> information and would be a better choice for social
networks.

XFN provides a richer set of *relationship* information, but
FOAF provides 
more than relationship information -- it also includes:

	1. hCard-like contact information, but richer in in some
ways,
	   having built-in support for a bunch of different
instant
	   messaging types (as against hCard where these are hacked
onto
	   the "URL" property), different types of URL,
etc;

	2. topics and interests;

	3. group/club membership;

All of which are beyond the determined scope of XFN. Having
that kind of 
thing makes FOAF very useful for social-networking type
sites.

In terms of relationships, FOAF *can* go beyond foaf:knows
by taking 
advantage of two things:

	1. Implicit relationships. If two people have the same
	   foaf:workHomepage, then they are probably co-workers.

	2. FOAF is RDF. You can mix and match RDF vocabularies.
	   http://vocab.org/relat
ionship/

-- 
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 41 days,
21:39.]

                              The Semantic Web
                http://t
obyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/09/sw/

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On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Toby A Inkster <mailtobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:
> Costello, Roger L. wrote:
>  > So it would seem that XFN provides a richer and
lighter-weight set of
>  > information and would be a better choice for
social networks.
>
>  XFN provides a richer set of *relationship*
information, but FOAF provides
>  more than relationship information -- it also
includes:
>

It's not a choice - you can use both, and you can extend
your FOAF
with other predicates - for example, the Relationships
Ontology:
http://vocab.org/relat
ionship/

-- 
Tom Morris
http://tommorris.org/
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A few days ago I was browsing through Twitter and at
somebody's web
page I viewed the page source and found XFN being used. 
Unfortunately,
I didn't bookmark that page.  Since then I have been unable
to find any
pages on Twitter that contains XFN.  Can someone point me to
a web page
on Twitter which contains XFN?

/Roger

 

-----Original Message-----
From: microformats-discuss-bouncesmicroformats.org
[mailto:microformats-discuss-bouncesmicroformats.org] On Behalf
Of
David Janes
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:44 AM
To: tomtommorris.org; Microformats Discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] XFN is getting smoked by FOAF

Hi Tom,

Thanks. I don't see Twitter friend information being
publicly
available though; you need to be logged in, do you not? I
was
compiling this table for my own benefit; once you get to
logging it
gets worth taking about the API rather than microformats
because you
don't have to worry about paging through results, such as
here [1]

Regards, etc...

[1] http://twitter
.com/scobleizer/friends/

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Tom Morris
<bbtommorrisgmail.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 1:59 PM, David Janes
<davidjanesblogmatrix.com> wrote:
>  >  Last.fm XFN
>
>  last.fm data is available as FOAF also thanks to a
translator
created
>  by Yves Raimond.
>
>  >  LiveJournal     None
>
>  LiveJournal supports FOAF.
>
>  >  Pownce  XFN
>
>  Pownce supports FOAF too.
>
>  >  Twitter API
>
>  Twitter uses hCard/XFN and I provide a FOAF translator
for data
>  available via their API.
>
>  --
>  Tom Morris
>  http://tommorris.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  microformats-discuss mailing list
>  microformats-discussmicroformats.org
>  http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>



-- 
David Janes
Founder, BlogMatrix
http://www.blogmatrix.com
http://www.onaswarm.com
http://www.onamine.com
_______________________________________________
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discussmicroformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss

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On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Costello, Roger L.
<costellomitre.org> wrote:
>
>  A few days ago I was browsing through Twitter and at
somebody's web
>  page I viewed the page source and found XFN being
used.  Unfortunately,
>  I didn't bookmark that page.  Since then I have been
unable to find any
>  pages on Twitter that contains XFN.  Can someone point
me to a web page
>  on Twitter which contains XFN?
>

Almost every profile page.
http://twitter.com/tommo
rris
View source and search for rel="contact". It's
there!

-- 
Tom Morris
http://tommorris.org/
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Costello, Roger L. wrote:
>
> A few days ago I was browsing through Twitter and at
somebody's web
> page I viewed the page source and found XFN being used.
 Unfortunately,
> I didn't bookmark that page.  Since then I have been
unable to find any
> pages on Twitter that contains XFN.  Can someone point
me to a web page
> on Twitter which contains XFN?

The individual user pages on Twitter contain XFN.

For example:

   http://twitter.com/mi
croformats

The only catch here is that the only relation represented is
'contact',
and the link is to the user's Twitter page rather than an
external site.

However, you could do a two-stage parse: follow the link to
the user's
Twitter page, and then look for a link with
'rel="me"' to discover their
website (because links to the user's website are also
XFN-marked, using
the 'me' relation).

Angus

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hello roger

All the user pages on twitter have xfn attached to people
who they are
following using rel="contact" in hcard 

sample:

<span class="vcard">
    <a title="Jack Dorsey"
rel="contact" class="url"
href="http://twitt
er.com/jack"><img width="24"
height="24"
src="http://s3.amazonaws.co
m/twitter_production/profile_images/49893972/Photo_22_mini.j
pg" id="profile-image" class="photo
fn" alt="Jack Dorsey"/></a>
  </span>

>From Tantek's page
http://tinyurl.com/2y62zn

I haven't seen much else though, hope this helps.

Martin.

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 09:47 -0400, Costello, Roger L.
wrote:
> A few days ago I was browsing through Twitter and at
somebody's web
> page I viewed the page source and found XFN being
used.
> Unfortunately,
> I didn't bookmark that page.  Since then I have been
unable to find
> any
> pages on Twitter that contains XFN.  Can someone point
me to a web
> page
> on Twitter which contains XFN? 

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