rel-license: what does the license apply to? (open issue revisited)

I'm in the process of adding 'rel="license"' in
the relevant places on
blip.tv, a video-sharing site, and I've run squarely into
the 'open issue'
raised by Evan on 2006-04-07 (in the wiki). Namely, there's
no obvious way
to specify that the license applies to a content element on
a page - a
picture, a video - rather than the page as a whole.

About all I can think of is that a second rel value is
needed, so you'd
have something like:

  <link rel="license"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" />
  <link rel="licensed" href="http://example.c
om/myvideo.flv" />
  <link rel="licensed" href="http://example.c
om/myvideo.mov" />

The interpretation would be:

   If one or more hyperlinks with 'rel=licensed' are found,
the items
referenced
   are covered by the license (but the page as a whole is
not).

   if no hyperlinks with 'rel=licensed' are found, the
license refers to
the page as a whole.

This has the advantage of only complicating things a little
... but it
also has the flaw that it can't deal with the case where you
have multiple
content items covered by different licenses on the same page
(which is a
not unlikely scenario).

I seem to remember one of the microformats has a
poorly-understood
algorithm for determining the scope of a declaration; could
this be
reapplied here?

Angus

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Then how do you specify the license for different elements
of the page?

Perhaps making your video embeds an iframe that contains
the
embed/object and its own rel-license would be the best set
of hoops to
jump through.

This is where RDFa starts to shine. I don't think there's a
good way
in microformats to set the subject of your triple
(subject/predicate/object) to be anything other than the
whole current
page.

In the wild people seem to publish conflicting information.
For
example Flickr use rel-license to say that my photo pages
are CC
licensed and then at the bottom of the page there's a
separate Yahoo
copyright message that is not marked up with microformats.

Ian

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Angus McIntyre
<anguspobox.com> wrote:
> I'm in the process of adding 'rel="license"'
in the relevant places on
> blip.tv, a video-sharing site, and I've run squarely
into the 'open issue'
> raised by Evan on 2006-04-07 (in the wiki). Namely,
there's no obvious way
> to specify that the license applies to a content
element on a page - a
> picture, a video - rather than the page as a whole.
>
> About all I can think of is that a second rel value is
needed, so you'd
> have something like:
>
>  <link rel="license"
> href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" />
>  <link rel="licensed" href="http://example.c
om/myvideo.flv" />
>  <link rel="licensed" href="http://example.c
om/myvideo.mov" />
>
> The interpretation would be:
>
>   If one or more hyperlinks with 'rel=licensed' are
found, the items
> referenced
>   are covered by the license (but the page as a whole
is not).
>
>   if no hyperlinks with 'rel=licensed' are found, the
license refers to
> the page as a whole.
>
> This has the advantage of only complicating things a
little ... but it
> also has the flaw that it can't deal with the case
where you have multiple
> content items covered by different licenses on the same
page (which is a
> not unlikely scenario).
>
> I seem to remember one of the microformats has a
poorly-understood
> algorithm for determining the scope of a declaration;
could this be
> reapplied here?
>
> Angus
>
> _______________________________________________
> microformats-discuss mailing list
> microformats-discussmicroformats.org
> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>



-- 
Ian McKellar <http://ian.mckellar.org/
>
+1 415 867 9255
ianmckellar.org: email | jabber | msn
ianloic: flickr | aim | yahoo | skype | linkedin | etc.
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Hey Angus,

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Angus McIntyre
<anguspobox.com> wrote:
> I'm in the process of adding 'rel="license"'
in the relevant places on
> blip.tv, a video-sharing site, and I've run squarely
into the 'open issue'
> raised by Evan on 2006-04-07 (in the wiki). Namely,
there's no obvious way
> to specify that the license applies to a content
element on a page - a
> picture, a video - rather than the page as a whole.

(I should probably check this before posting... but I'm in a
rush...)
>From what I remember of the HTML spec, an <a>
element with the "rel"
attribute set applies to all or part of the HTML page.

An example of this is rel-bookmark used for hAtom.

So... the rel-license could apply just to the video.

>From a machine point-of-view, there's no way (that I'm
aware of) to
differentiate when the rel-license applies to the whole page
or part
of the page.

Suggestions welcome.


See ya

-- 
Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
http://ChangeLog.ca/

Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/
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Is the problem that the page contains multiple video
elements? If so
using hAtom to define them as separate entries may help
clarify this,
especially in conjunction with rel-enclosure.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux
<supercanadiangmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Angus,
>
>
>  On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Angus McIntyre
<anguspobox.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm in the process of adding
'rel="license"' in the relevant places on
>  > blip.tv, a video-sharing site, and I've run
squarely into the 'open issue'
>  > raised by Evan on 2006-04-07 (in the wiki).
Namely, there's no obvious way
>  > to specify that the license applies to a content
element on a page - a
>  > picture, a video - rather than the page as a
whole.
>
>  (I should probably check this before posting... but
I'm in a rush...)
>  >From what I remember of the HTML spec, an
<a> element with the "rel"
>  attribute set applies to all or part of the HTML
page.
>
>  An example of this is rel-bookmark used for hAtom.
>
>  So... the rel-license could apply just to the video.
>
>  >From a machine point-of-view, there's no way (that
I'm aware of) to
>  differentiate when the rel-license applies to the
whole page or part
>  of the page.
>
>  Suggestions welcome.
>
>
>  See ya
>
>  --
>  Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
>  http://ChangeLog.ca/
>
>  Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  microformats-discuss mailing list
>  microformats-discussmicroformats.org
>  http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microforma
ts-discuss
>
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Hi Ian/Angus,

>  This is where RDFa starts to shine. I don't think
there's a good way
>  in microformats to set the subject of your triple
>  (subject/predicate/object) to be anything other than
the whole current
>  page.

Although I'm obviously going to agree with that, it strikes
me that in
this particular scenario, all you need from RDFa is the about
attribute.

The example given previously simply becomes:

  <link about="http://example.c
om/myvideo.flv" rel="license"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" />

  <link about="http://example.c
om/myvideo.mov" rel="license"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" />

I'm suggesting that if people don't want to make the leap to
'full'
RDFa, it still might be worth making use of some of the
simpler
features like the about attribute, which are designed to
solved
exactly this problem.

By the way, in RDFa 'proper', the src attribute can also be
used to
set the subject, so if the video clips are in an
<object> tag, it
could be marked up like this:

  <object src="http://example.c
om/myvideo.flv" rel="license"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" />

  <object src="http://example.c
om/myvideo.mov" rel="license"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/" />

As you can imagine, that's pretty useful for pages full of
images,
too, where each image might have a different license.

Regards,

Mark

Mark Birbeck
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