Vista Latency Issue

Alan Willcuts wrote:
> We are having a latency problem with our Vista machines
with average 
> ping times of 4 ms and above and 1-2 % packet loss
pinging our router.  
> The same machine and hardware with XP does not
experience any latency.  
> 
> We do have a hardware firewall on our subnet between
our LAN and the 
> router and there is no latency within the LAN. 
Attempts at updating nic 
> drivers, uninstalling the NIC have not improved the
situation.
>  
> Machines are on the Campus AD and we are using Windows
Vista firewall 
> with many of the predefined rules implemented, no ipsec
currently.  
> Symantec’s Network drive scanning and some other
features are off. 
> 
> Has anyone else seen similar behavior or have any ideas
about what may 
> be causing this?

This is indeed a puzzlement. I would suggest putting a
non CalAD Vista machine on your LAN to see if the issue
remains. Likewise, you could also take one of your Vista
machines with the problem and put it on another subnet
to see if the problem follows the machine. These
experiments
will help you eliminate (or suspect) the NIC, NIC drivers,
and your firewall as possible causes.

For what it's worth, I've been running Vista on my main
desktop machine (not in CalAD, no firewall) since forever
and I've had no problems of any kind.

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
Unix Computing Support
College of Chemistry
173 Tan Hall
University of California Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
94720-1460
510-643-1032
jlforrestberkeley.edu

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Thanks Jon for the suggestion:

Have already tested Vista in Worgroup (default firewall
rules) vs. Vista on
Domain (with group policy firewall settings) here is a
recent ping -t output
over about 1.5 hours:

Vista worgroup:

Packets: Sent = 4631, Received = 4588, Lost = 43 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2884ms, Average = 10ms


Vista Domain:


    Packets: Sent = 4808, Received = 4780, Lost = 28 (0%
loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2660ms, Average = 6ms




I will be testing on another subnet soon.


Alan






Alan Willcuts
Information Systems
Department of Recreational Sports
UC Berkeley

510 643-3867


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Forrest [mailto:jlforrestberkeley.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:51 AM
To: Alan Willcuts
Cc: micronet-listlistlink.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Vista Latency Issue

Alan Willcuts wrote:
> We are having a latency problem with our Vista machines
with average 
> ping times of 4 ms and above and 1-2 % packet loss
pinging our router.  
> The same machine and hardware with XP does not
experience any latency.  
> 
> We do have a hardware firewall on our subnet between
our LAN and the 
> router and there is no latency within the LAN. 
Attempts at updating nic 
> drivers, uninstalling the NIC have not improved the
situation.
>  
> Machines are on the Campus AD and we are using Windows
Vista firewall 
> with many of the predefined rules implemented, no ipsec
currently.  
> Symantec's Network drive scanning and some other
features are off. 
> 
> Has anyone else seen similar behavior or have any ideas
about what may 
> be causing this?

This is indeed a puzzlement. I would suggest putting a
non CalAD Vista machine on your LAN to see if the issue
remains. Likewise, you could also take one of your Vista
machines with the problem and put it on another subnet
to see if the problem follows the machine. These
experiments
will help you eliminate (or suspect) the NIC, NIC drivers,
and your firewall as possible causes.

For what it's worth, I've been running Vista on my main
desktop machine (not in CalAD, no firewall) since forever
and I've had no problems of any kind.

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
Unix Computing Support
College of Chemistry
173 Tan Hall
University of California Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
94720-1460
510-643-1032
jlforrestberkeley.edu


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I agree with Jon that it sounds like a driver issue.  For
completeness, 
it would be useful to have the same statistics as below for
XP.  It's 
clear that 6ms is way too high an average RTT for pinging
the router 
interface (I assume that's what you're pinging), but it
would still be 
nice to know the baseline.  Have you tried tracerouting to
the same 
places you're pinging?  I have heard that Vista tries to
tunnel IPv6 by 
default, which shouldn't have anything to do with this
problem, but I 
wonder if something really weird is happening.

Anyone else experiencing the same problems with Vista?

Alan Willcuts wrote:
> Thanks Jon for the suggestion:
> 
> Have already tested Vista in Worgroup (default firewall
rules) vs. Vista on
> Domain (with group policy firewall settings) here is a
recent ping -t output
> over about 1.5 hours:
> 
> Vista worgroup:
> 
> Packets: Sent = 4631, Received = 4588, Lost = 43 (0%
loss),
> Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
>     Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2884ms, Average = 10ms
> 
> 
> Vista Domain:
> 
> 
>     Packets: Sent = 4808, Received = 4780, Lost = 28
(0% loss),
> Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
>     Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2660ms, Average = 6ms

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Please see inline comments regarding baseline below.  All
ping stats are
pinging the router, tracert shows no intermediate hops, it
goes straight to
the router.

Thanks,

Alan




-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Sinatra [mailto:michaelrancid.berkeley.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:05 AM
To: Alan Willcuts
Cc: micronet-listlistlink.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Micronet] Vista Latency Issue

I agree with Jon that it sounds like a driver issue.  For
completeness, 
it would be useful to have the same statistics as below for
XP.  It's 
clear that 6ms is way too high an average RTT for pinging
the router 
interface (I assume that's what you're pinging), but it
would still be 
nice to know the baseline.  Have you tried tracerouting to
the same 
places you're pinging?  I have heard that Vista tries to
tunnel IPv6 by 
default, which shouldn't have anything to do with this
problem, but I 
wonder if something really weird is happening.

Anyone else experiencing the same problems with Vista?

Alan Willcuts wrote:
> Thanks Jon for the suggestion:
> 
> Have already tested Vista in Worgroup (default firewall
rules) vs. Vista
on
> Domain (with group policy firewall settings) here is a
recent ping -t
output
> over about 1.5 hours:
> 
> Vista worgroup:
> 
> Packets: Sent = 4631, Received = 4588, Lost = 43 (0%
loss),
> Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
>     Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2884ms, Average = 10ms
> 
> 
> Vista Domain:
> 
> 
>     Packets: Sent = 4808, Received = 4780, Lost = 28
(0% loss),
> Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
>     Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 2660ms, Average = 6ms


XP Baseline, same machine as "Vista Workgroup"
above (note: much shorter
time span and different time of day)


Packets: Sent = 679, Received = 679, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 1ms


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