r18904 - trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt

Author: michael
Date: Tue Jul  4 23:14:55 2006
New Revision: 18904

Modified:
   trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt

Log:
trying to end the codec id battle


Modified: trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
============================================================
==================
--- trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt	(original)
+++ trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt	Tue Jul  4 23:14:55 2006
 -443,6
+443,8 
     example: "H264"
     MUST contain 2 or 4 bytes, note, this might be
increased in the future
     if needed
+    the id values used are the same as in avi, so if a
codec uses a specific
+    fourcc in avi then the same fourcc MUST be used here
 
 time_base_nom / time_base_denom = time_base
     the length of a timer tick in seconds, this MUST be
equal to the 1/fps
 -716,6
+718,11 
     "Source"
         "DVD", "VCD",
"CD", "MD", "FM radio",
"VHS", "TV", "LD"
         Optional: appended PAL, NTSC, SECAM, ... in
parentheses
+    "SourceContainer"
+        "nut", "mkv",
"mov", "avi", "ogg",
"rm", "mpeg-ps",
"mpeg-ts", "raw"
+    "SourceCodecTag"
+        the source codec id like a fourcc which was used to
store a specific
+        stream in its SourceContainer
     "CaptureDevice"
         "BT878", "BT848",
"webcam", ... (more exact names are fine too)
     "CreationTime"
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2006/7/5, michael <subversionmplayerhq.hu>:
> Author: michael
> Date: Tue Jul  4 23:14:55 2006
> New Revision: 18904
>
> Modified:
>    trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
>
> Log:
> trying to end the codec id battle

I hate this kind of blitzkrieg, that tries to establish new
Status Quo.
I'm afraid you just turn a struggle into full scale war.

Actually this is how our struggle with Diego started. He
ignored the
discussion and made highly disputable commit. Then things
escalated.
Do you want the same?


> Modified: trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
>
============================================================
==================
> --- trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    (original)
> +++ trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    Tue Jul  4 23:14:55
2006
>  -443,6 +443,8 
>      example: "H264"
>      MUST contain 2 or 4 bytes, note, this might be
increased in the future
>      if needed
> +    the id values used are the same as in avi, so if a
codec uses a specific
> +    fourcc in avi then the same fourcc MUST be used
here

What are we going to use for wav tags for audio formats that
doesn't
have official one?
I have asked this quiestion about 5 times already.

>  time_base_nom / time_base_denom = time_base
>      the length of a timer tick in seconds, this MUST
be equal to the 1/fps
>  -716,6 +718,11 
>      "Source"
>          "DVD", "VCD",
"CD", "MD", "FM radio",
"VHS", "TV", "LD"
>          Optional: appended PAL, NTSC, SECAM, ... in
parentheses
> +    "SourceContainer"
> +        "nut", "mkv",
"mov", "avi", "ogg",
"rm", "mpeg-ps",
"mpeg-ts", "raw"
> +    "SourceCodecTag"
> +        the source codec id like a fourcc which was
used to store a specific
> +        stream in its SourceContainer

That would be better to be named
"SourceStreamTag" .

I'd also like to have "SourceEncoder" that
contains the name and
version of the encoder.

>      "CaptureDevice"
>          "BT878", "BT848",
"webcam", ... (more exact names are fine too)
>      "CreationTime"

BTW, why  chapter_id/start/len are mandatory fields in the
info packet
and not entries like all the rest?
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Ivan Kalvachev wrote:
> 
>> Modified: trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
>>
============================================================
==================
>>
>> --- trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    (original)
>> +++ trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    Tue Jul  4 23:14:55
2006
>>  -443,6 +443,8 
>>      example: "H264"
>>      MUST contain 2 or 4 bytes, note, this might be
increased in the
>> future
>>      if needed
>> +    the id values used are the same as in avi, so
if a codec uses a
>> specific
>> +    fourcc in avi then the same fourcc MUST be
used here
> 
> What are we going to use for wav tags for audio formats
that doesn't
> have official one?
> I have asked this quiestion about 5 times already.

I think we could use mov ones or just made up ourselves.

> 
>>  time_base_nom / time_base_denom = time_base
>>      the length of a timer tick in seconds, this
MUST be equal to the
>> 1/fps
>>  -716,6 +718,11 > 
>> Modified: trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
>>
============================================================
==================
>>
>> --- trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    (original)
>> +++ trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    Tue Jul  4 23:14:55
2006
>>  -443,6 +443,8 
>>      example: "H264"
>>      MUST contain 2 or 4 bytes, note, this might be
increased in the
>> future
>>      if needed
>> +    the id values used are the same as in avi, so
if a codec uses a
>> specific
>> +    fourcc in avi then the same fourcc MUST be
used here
> 
> What are we going to use for wav tags for audio formats
that doesn't
> have official one?
> I have asked this quiestion about 5 times already.

I think we could use mov ones or just made up ourselves.
,,,,,,,,
>>      "Source"
>>          "DVD", "VCD",
"CD", "MD", "FM radio",
"VHS", "TV", "LD"
>>          Optional: appended PAL, NTSC, SECAM, ...
in parentheses
>> +    "SourceContainer"
>> +        "nut", "mkv",
"mov", "avi", "ogg",
"rm", "mpeg-ps",
>> "mpeg-ts", "raw"
>> +    "SourceCodecTag"
>> +        the source codec id like a fourcc which
was used to store a
>> specific
>> +        stream in its SourceContainer
> 
> That would be better to be named
"SourceStreamTag" .

I like better SourceContainer or SourceTag

> 
> I'd also like to have "SourceEncoder" that
contains the name and
> version of the encoder.
> 
>>      "CaptureDevice"
>>          "BT878", "BT848",
"webcam", ... (more exact names are fine too)
>>      "CreationTime"
> 
> BTW, why  chapter_id/start/len are mandatory fields in
the info packet
> and not entries like all the rest?

Those are informative, chapter stuff could change radically
the playback.

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/
~lu_zero

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2006/7/5, Luca Barbato <lu_zerogentoo.org>:
> Ivan Kalvachev wrote:
> > BTW, why  chapter_id/start/len are mandatory
fields in the info packet
> > and not entries like all the rest?
>
> Those are informative, chapter stuff could change
radically the playback.

Then it would be better if they have their own packet type,
coz info
packet somehow sound informative to me.
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On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:45:03PM +0200, Luca Barbato
wrote:
> > I'd also like to have "SourceEncoder"
that contains the name and
> > version of the encoder.
> > 
> >>      "CaptureDevice"
> >>          "BT878",
"BT848", "webcam", ... (more exact
names are fine too)
> >>      "CreationTime"
> > 
> > BTW, why  chapter_id/start/len are mandatory
fields in the info packet
> > and not entries like all the rest?
> 
> Those are informative, chapter stuff could change
radically the playback.

No, this is the wrong explanation. The key/value pairs in
the info
packet tell information _about the content_ to which they
apply. The
chapter_id/start/len fields, like the stream_id, tell which
part of
the file the info tags apply to. These are completely
different
issues.

For those who don't remember this issue was discussed to
death a year
or so ago.

Rich

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Hi

On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 12:43:50PM +0300, Ivan Kalvachev
wrote:
> 2006/7/5, michael <subversionmplayerhq.hu>:
> >Author: michael
> >Date: Tue Jul  4 23:14:55 2006
> >New Revision: 18904
> >
> >Modified:
> >   trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
> >
> >Log:
> >trying to end the codec id battle
> 
> I hate this kind of blitzkrieg, that tries to establish
new Status Quo.
> I'm afraid you just turn a struggle into full scale
war.
> 
> Actually this is how our struggle with Diego started.
He ignored the
> discussion and made highly disputable commit. Then
things escalated.
> Do you want the same?

no, i want nut finished and useable, not delay it by months
or years due to
minor things like the codec id
if we cant finish nut iam fine with leaving nut development
and simply
publishing my own nut like format outside svn, you can then
keep this
"struggle" going on ad infinitum with whoever
doesnt unsubscribe from
nut-devel

AFAIK you didn find a single issue with the avi based
suggestion, your
suggestion IIRC was based on a new nut specific id system,
which noone,
not even you are willing to implement and maintain  ... so
complaining
about my commit really is trolling and nothing else, suggest
and implement
some other solution, if its better noone will object but as
long as you
have no alternative or arent willing to implemet it (the avi
based system
doensnt need any real work to be done as avi fourccs are
already supported
...) then you really should not complain


> 
> 
> >Modified: trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
>
>========================================================
======================
> >--- trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    (original)
> >+++ trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt    Tue Jul  4 23:14:55
2006
> > -443,6 +443,8 
> >     example: "H264"
> >     MUST contain 2 or 4 bytes, note, this might be
increased in the future
> >     if needed
> >+    the id values used are the same as in avi, so
if a codec uses a 
> >specific
> >+    fourcc in avi then the same fourcc MUST be
used here
> 
> What are we going to use for wav tags for audio formats
that doesn't
> have official one?
> I have asked this quiestion about 5 times already.

this is completly independant of the id system, in every
system you will
always have to deal with codecs which have no tag (yet)


> 
> > time_base_nom / time_base_denom = time_base
> >     the length of a timer tick in seconds, this
MUST be equal to the 1/fps
> > -716,6 +718,11 
> >     "Source"
> >         "DVD", "VCD",
"CD", "MD", "FM radio",
"VHS", "TV", "LD"
> >         Optional: appended PAL, NTSC, SECAM, ...
in parentheses
> >+    "SourceContainer"
> >+        "nut", "mkv",
"mov", "avi", "ogg",
"rm", "mpeg-ps",
"mpeg-ts", 
> >"raw"
> >+    "SourceCodecTag"
> >+        the source codec id like a fourcc which
was used to store a 
> >specific
> >+        stream in its SourceContainer
> 
> That would be better to be named
"SourceStreamTag" .

i disagree, but of course the name is totally irrelevant ...


> 
> I'd also like to have "SourceEncoder" that
contains the name and
> version of the encoder.

we already have that and its called "Encoder"

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint:
9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

In the past you could go to a library and read, borrow or
copy any book
Today you'd get arrested for mere telling someone where the
library is
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On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:02:01AM +0200, Michael
Niedermayer wrote:
> Hi
> 
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 12:43:50PM +0300, Ivan
Kalvachev wrote:
> > 2006/7/5, michael <subversionmplayerhq.hu>:
> > >Author: michael
> > >Date: Tue Jul  4 23:14:55 2006
> > >New Revision: 18904
> > >
> > >Modified:
> > >   trunk/DOCS/tech/mpcf.txt
> > >
> > >Log:
> > >trying to end the codec id battle
> > 
> > I hate this kind of blitzkrieg, that tries to
establish new Status Quo.
> > I'm afraid you just turn a struggle into full
scale war.
> > 
> > Actually this is how our struggle with Diego
started. He ignored the
> > discussion and made highly disputable commit. Then
things escalated.
> > Do you want the same?
> 
> no, i want nut finished and useable, not delay it by
months or years due to
> minor things like the codec id

couldn't have put it better...

i don't necessarily like the wording the way you added it
to the spec
but any complaints are minor. maybe i'll suggest some minor
changes.

rich

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